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Shooting People
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The post-Brexit TV industry

I was putting together the final bits of a comedy-drama project that I had been filming, on-and-off, for almost a year. Then the bomb went off and it has all seemed rather pointless since. My feeling now is to not even bother finishing it, even though it is 99% complete. Is anyone else struggling to justify continuing on projects in this time of national emergency? Yes, a national emergency, one as serious as the wartime threat of Nazi invasion. Except this time we're the baddies.

  • I'm in America, and many of us just watch in disbelief.

    But my issues aren't that. My issues are coming to terms with pay and the race to the bottom. Productions can come nowhere near my old rate. Films are made for nothing now, and it's hard to pull a living out of features any longer. Especially my job, which was making bad films less bad. There are many more bad films now, and I get offered a lot of work, but at terrible wages--nearly unlivable. Perhaps there will be a small silver lining: the pound has dropped so heavily, that maybe American productions with decent cash will come flooding in. Maybe.

    Finish your film. People need a laugh right now.

    3 years ago
  • Thanks for the bolster, Dan (yes, I know that's an ungrammatical use of the word bolster - I'm in an experimental mood). And in return, may I commiserate with you, dealing as you must with the crap whipped up by your own populist demagogue. Oh, as he has attempted to turn the Brexit vote to his advantage, has anyone yet put it to Trump how he would feel if, say, Texas voted to leave your own union?

    ps I wouldn't advise American production companies to come flooding in. The're attacking foreigners on the streets now, dontchaknow? With certain people, the vote is felt to be a mandate for a Kristallnacht.

    3 years ago
    • We've been trying to get Texas to leave for years. And the rest of the American South for that matter. They threaten, but never do.

      3 years ago
  • Hey if the Americans have money, may they come! I've just walked off a British indie project that was both chronically and acutely underfunded (which is an achievement). I've suggested they give me a call if the money arrives tomorrow, but that I'm absolutely sick to death of this shit in the meantime.

    Alas the producers cannot blame the idiocy of leaving the EU, their errors date far further back.

    3 years ago
    • Paddy, I love you, brother. You always give me a good laugh (chronically and acutely underfunded). I'll let everyone know you're available!

      3 years ago
    • @Dan Selakovich Ha! This project has broken me. I spent Friday at my desk shaking, shouting and crying. I'm currently back at home and have declared a day off for crew (who we haven't got money to pay) and told the producers I'm off. They've begged me for 24h to pay my full fee, if they do I'll probably grudgingly return for the 4.5 weeks it'll take to wrap on the condition that there is also enough cash solvency for some basics like cast, crew, facilities, catering, lights, insurance. Mere details, I know, but I feel they're important.

      Only reason I'm here so long at all is for the director, a personal friend with a project everyone loves (loved), but instead of rescheduling and doing a proper job, producers have spent hugely on pay-or-play (and not even financed that fully) and are losing shooting days. Fact is they've paid out more in escrow than the whole of the rest of the production so far, massive liabilities, I think they're throwing good money after bad in the hope of recovering. Gamblers fallacy, if you like.

      As I feel today, please don't tell anyone I'm available, if I never expose another frame again I just won't care right now! :'-(

      3 years ago
    • @Paddy Robinson-Griffin I really don't understand how common sense can disappear when it comes to filmmaking, but it happens so much. Gambler's Fallacy indeed! Or deterministic physical laws, for that matter. Even for the most mundane things;

      "say, that fake brick wall looks shiny and plastic."
      "Don't worry, people won't notice."

      Yes we will.

      "Say, you're giving all of the actors a pay or play deal, but we don't have the full budget yet."
      "Don't worry. It will work out."

      No, it really won't.

      I've read so many scripts in the last few years (for possible editing work) that have gotten funding. Scripts that were just not very good. The problem is that they tell me their budget, and I can't believe they are trying to make what I just read for a bargain basement price. So I turn them down. At this point, if someone handed me a good script with a good director and good actors, I'd actually do it for next to nothing. But damn, that's rare. Some delusion is necessary to get a film made, but it really seems an epidemic at this point.

      Sorry for your troubles, Paddy. No good deed and all that.

      3 years ago
    • @Dan Selakovich Well I've had so many calls begging my return I'm going to do it if we redraw the terms - the only way I can create anything at this stage (any real bond would have kicked in long ago, but they never got one because they never had the money when it was needed) is to effectively come in as if a bond was being exercised, spend money like water (no time to do things cheaply, no position to negotiate during peak season, only way to solve problems will be money), and act for the project, not the producers. If they'll agree to that basic change in scope, that I'll get them A film made, and it'll be a shit version of THE film, and they'll pay all my invoices upfront, then I'll return and kick it into enough of a shape to be a film. But you can't have lost 20% of your shooting days, be paying 100% upfront for overdue suppliers deals, have blown some very expensive construction deals and so be paying retail in peak season etc and expect the same film at the same cost as the one I had budgeted, planned, staged, etc.

      I've lost so many crew and so much domain knowledge, tomorrow we'll be almost ready to start preproduction...5 days into the shoot window (which can't move). Tears before bedtime, but I'll take the money and run, probably.

      Dan, where's all this glamour we're promised, mate?

      3 years ago
    • @Paddy Robinson-Griffin Hahaha! Glamour?! I think I left it in 1989 in the back pocket of my blue pants.

      I'm reminded of a Robin Williams Oscar joke, "the Writer-producer-director: the only creature on earth that can blow smoke up his own ass."

      3 years ago
  • Yes, Paddy, it was idiocy. But I still can't believe there are 17.4 million idiots in the country. I grew up always thinking the figure was more around 17.2 million.

    Did you know there's a petition to have fascist Farage knighted? He thinly disguised his racist motives by saying he was anti-elite, anti-establishment and for democracy, but who would be knighting him? It would be the Queen - the most elite establishment figure around. And the most undemocratic. The contradiction, irony and absurdity is completely lost on the petition signers. But, of course, that's because they are idiots.

    I despair. Idiots grabbed the wheel and drove the country straight into a foul ditch. Let's hope China invades to enforce regime change. It would have to be better than living in Farageland (soon to be twinned with Trumpton).

    3 years ago
  • I'm in slogan mood: Give us back our country - you've already broken it.

    3 years ago
  • Thank you all! When I wrote my first post here, I thought, "Well, that's a weird rant about wages. I wish SP had an edit button." Please, everyone, rant away. I need to feel less like a pile of shit.

    Fear for us poor Americans. We might just be stupid enough to elect... what did the Scots call him? A "shitgibbon?" The world has gone mad.

    3 years ago
    • I'm sure you've got a lot more nationalistic vitriol and sheer lies with impressive sounding numbers in to go before polling day. Just remind your young to be careful what they wish for because they might just get it, like we have.

      If this wasn't so desperate, it'd be funny, but we have apparently self-harmed in the most visible way possible. People thought of it as a bit of fun protest vote. Parts of the country that benefit most from EU subsidies voted to leave, and are now crapping themselves that London isn't going to pay for all the rural development and farming subsidies they received. Use us as an example of what a bad idea listening to Murdoch is.

      Anyone for a '48.1' line of t-shirts?

      3 years ago
  • Dear EU, our currency has mysteriously dropped to a 30-year low and we've mysteriously lost out last AAA credit rating. Can we please join the Euro?

    3 years ago
  • If it was an opportunity for the UK, which could that be?

    3 years ago
    • Aleve, it was an opportunity for people to vote for the Union Jack flag... to be redesigned to remove its integral Scottish flag.

      How ironic that the most fervent Leavers were waving Union Jacks around not understanding that they would be voting to lose that flag.

      3 years ago
  • One thing that will be affected is the tax credit that recently opened up to high end TV dramas, it's the same one that film have had for a while. The credit rules recently changed to include more European spend counting towards being eligible for UK credits on UK spend (or something like that). I suspect that'll have to revert to being specific to our borders again. Not a huge change for most cases, it'll affect a couple of period dramas and animation the most, but I'd imagine the likes of GoT will be making fresh decisions.

    3 years ago
    • Forgive my ignorance, but wasn't one of the advantages of being part of the EU the ability for foreigners to work in other EU countries? So a brit could easily work in France, for example? If so, how is that going to shake out? Seems to me, there are a lot of British film crews working back and forth on the Continent. Or am I completely wrong?

      3 years ago
    • Dan, you are not wrong. If post-Brexit Britain doesn't agree to the continued free movement of people between EU countries, it probably won't be allowed to remain in the economically all-important single market. If it forsakes remaining in the single market because of that condition, then it will be back to applying for visas to travel and permits to work, etc. That would indeed complicate the lives of film crews. It would rather be like you in the US suddenly needing to complete lengthy paperwork to travel to your neighbouring states to work on a job.

      3 years ago
    • @Alwyne Kennedy Thanks for that, Alwyne. I feel for those currently working in other countries. The American technical term for Brexit would be "pig fuck."

      3 years ago
  • Here's an idea. A second referendum has been ruled out as undemocratic, but how about a referendum to democratically ask the people if they want a second referendum?

    I'd go on twitter to suggest it but I don't have a twitter account, and don't want one.

    3 years ago
    • To be honest, if Labour reform (I suggest around Dan Jarvis), and the Tories call a general election, there may be a way to set the silliness aside. Everyone, even Boris, realises this is suicide, so I'll bet a quid there's a lot of whispering in Westminster corridors right now, for the common good.

      3 years ago
    • Why Jarvis? He's centre-left, has a career behind him involving courage, loyalty and leadership, is already known as anti-Corbyn (who was unelectable before losing his entire shadow cabinet, now is just a bonus question on political quizzes in 2030). But that's just my thoughts, other candidates are available...

      3 years ago
    • Yes, Paddy, of course there is a lot of urgent whispering going on in the corridors of Westminster. That's the only crumb of hope to be found in this whole sorry mess. Boris took his big self-serving and all rather jolly gamble to usurp his old rival King David and become Prime Minister. He calculatingly exploited the populist mood that for decades had been insidiously and persistently cultivated by Farage. He even stooped to playing the race card himself (the cheapest but most effective card in the pack), but now he is distancing himself from the filth he helped bring to near boiling point. For instance, apparently the Leave campaign website has already been cleansed of some of its campaign pledges and speeches. And, of course, post-vote, Leave were quick to sideline the thoroughly odious Farage once he was no longer useful to them, and they had the good sense to keep him at arm's length during the campaign anyway.

      For sure, the irresponsible Leave leaders are now crapping themselves. They are realising it was more than just an in-party political game. They are waking up to what some of us knew all along - at stake was the future prosperity and civil order of the nation and perhaps Europe. They played with fire and that fire has already got close to being out of control. Sparks are setting off hateful little blazes across England and Wales.

      The Remain MPs (who, of course, have a big majority) should fully wake up to the danger to this country and form a cross-party coalition, similar to the war-time coalitions, with the aim of forcing a quick general election, with cancelling Brexit being their election promise, for surely many millions of Leave voters have now realised that they voted the wrong way for their own greater and long-term interests.

      Maybe next time, before entering the polling stations enough voters will acquaint themselves with at least a reliable overview of the real economic facts, not just ambiguously worded and fallacious promises emblazoned on the side of a campaign bus. And maybe enough voters will have by then realised that the real fear-mongering came from the Leave side. And, although motivated by racism and xenophobia that so many of them surely were in the referendum, maybe enough of them will soon decide that wanting their children to be able to live in a peaceful and prosperous country outweighs their wish to see only white faces when they go into town centres or to hear only local accents in shops.

      3 years ago
  • How about a UK-Swiss union? We're in the same place of bilateral negotiations, just started early.

    3 years ago
    • Film isn't proud about where the money came from - look at the money laundering that launched Hollywood, for instance. So bring your CHF and we'll make your movie for sure... Currently 10% off, too!

      3 years ago
    • @Paddy Robinson-Griffin
      I was hoping more like the other way around: you bring your GBP. No rebates, though.

      3 years ago
    • @Alève Mine
      Alas that rebate is why I'm not watching great Swiss movies - 20-25% is a huge amount. You need to move!

      3 years ago
    • @Paddy Robinson-Griffin Yeah tell me about it. And there are further reasons. Believe me I'm trying to change the fabric of things around here - to the best of my abilities.

      3 years ago
  • Hi all, I have only skimmed this and am in shock myself & pleased to see some like minds here. The U.K. divided & falling apart and voted leave against world recommendation!! As someone who benefited from EURASMUS & seen benefits of EU for movement, grants, directives, science and would want this for other generations. How does it work for Films?! Also not surprised as treated really badly as been on ESA since tbi but multilingual/cultural but came off as no help & messing me about so trying to create diff things with no budget & no idea really. The UN investigating treatment of disabled pple although mine hidden will pick & bully so aware the divides, state, private, race, language, north south. Pple have bit of power & abuse it. Tried to report hate crimes a while ago & harassment last week ha that was a joke. Police "are you British?!" Yes & French, European, World person" no crimes committed & will protect white working class perps. Just like other crime reports. The Met not reporting an increase as yet? Be keen to write & film about many things if anyone wants to work on it. Will report online from now on. Jo Cox being murdered & shouting Britain First most extreme am aware of but obv hate etc are on rise. I attended an event where a person from Clacton -UKIP stronghold talked about sovereignty & independence. I do understand on some level but was not right decision at this time. Indeed as you say Alwyne the lies on leave side with the bus & denial unbelievable as well as fear mongering re Turkey & an army. Pleased to see we love the Eu demo in Westminster. Xenophobic, sexist , divisive times. Def renewing my French nationality although they will vote in future & lots of experiences & knowledge of FN there. Unsettling times.

    3 years ago
  • Yes, Nathalie, unsettling times indeed. And anyone who doesn't think that way is stupid or asleep.

    I see that the markets are beginning to speculate that Brexit won't actually happen, hence a rise in share prices and a small rise in sterling.

    3 years ago
    • Yes very unsettling & can only imagine if from abroad.Lots of pple not sure of future. Like going back in time & no leadership government or opposition & in fighting.

      3 years ago
  • I'm actually quite enjoying watching all the chaos and doom-mongering - after all, some people just want to watch the world burn ;)

    3 years ago
    • Yes, Andrew, it is rather compelling viewing. Except it's not a movie. It's real. And real fire hurts more and more the nearer it gets. Economic decline might well be the least of the UK's troubles if Brexit is actually initiated.

      3 years ago
    • Indeed. And we'll just have to deal with those consequences as and when then manifest. Turbulent times are ahead and as we're already seeing, for some it'll bring out the worst in us - for others, the best.

      Change doesn't have to be a bad thing though and clearly there's something very wrong both in the UK and in the EU to have brought about this situation.

      If you live and/or work outside of London, Scotland or Northern Ireland, odds are that 50% of Brits you bump into during your day voted out. In London it's 1 in 4. They're not all bigots, racists and xenophobes (although undoubtedly some are) - just people with different lives, priorities and problems to you (or me).

      The EU was a wonderful dream but the reality is as corrupt and self-serving as politics in any nation and whilst the UK may suffer economically for its vote to leave I'm glad there are people still willing to fight for change - this result actually restores a little of my faith in humanity.

      3 years ago
    • Oh, and finish your film - the culture and art we leave behind us is the greatest achievement we can ever accomplish in life and if your work makes even one person smile then it's worth it.

      What we think or feel is irrelevant - it's what we *do* with the short time we have that matters.

      3 years ago
    • Andrew, no one fought for change. But some people lied and poisoned to bring about change. There was nothing noble or heroic about it. It was squalid, not elevating. And the change will hurt the working class Leavers most, at least economically. But other sorts of people may be hurt more. Need I remind you that it is less than 14 days since a sitting MP was killed on the streets by a far-right nutjob? If you don't know how much of the Leave vote is owed to the two-decade online propaganda campaign persistently engaged in by the far-right, then you have been blinkered. I noticed that some of those nutjobs even used the Jo Cox charity page comment box to place disguised propaganda. Yes, one of their kind murdered her and their squalid response was to exploit her charity page to try and discredit the causes she held dear and to persuade people to vote Leave. Is that really the kind of thing that restores your faith in humanity?

      Of course, Farage was a Godsend to the far-right - an electable racist, even back when racism was far more socially cowed. Now, all of a sudden, they don't feel that cowed. Like I said previously, they feel they have a mandate.

      And speaking of Farage, he tells us now that the EU is falling and that he was right all along to say it would. Well, yes, it may be falling, but largely because of his own twattish efforts. Be rather like me saying Nelson's Column will fall and, after spending twenty years chipping away at its base, and persuading others to also chip away, then telling everyone I was right all along when it tumbles.

      Well, I've said all I'm going to say on this. I've never engaged in an online discussion before, and this one that I initiated myself will probably be my last, if only because my thumb has started to hurt. And as for my film project, I find I care very little for it now. What has restored your faith in humanity, Andrew, has almost shut the coffin lid on mine.

      3 years ago
  • Well, clearly 17.4 million people *did* want change. And to credit that kind of momentum to fascist political clowns like Farage is giving him credit he simply doesn't deserve (despite his own self-aggrandising).

    As I said above, outside the city (more than) 1 in 2 English and Welsh wanted out of the EU in one of the largest voter turnouts in years - there's no doubt that some of these people are indeed as ill-informed/xenophobic/easily manipulated as you imply but I believe those people to be a minority (albeit a vocal one).

    UKIP has been campaigning for years now without gaining much traction outside of the nutjobs you've described - if the people genuinely agreed with their propaganda then they've had plenty of time to demonstrate it at the ballot boxes but the support simply wasn't there. This though - this is something different.

    And yes, the murder of Jo Cox was a terrible crime committed by someone that clearly had severe mental health problems but blaming his actions on EU/UK politics is like blaming movies or video games for school shootings - it's a superficial excuse that fails to look at why that tragedy really happened.

    Perhaps when the government (and half the populace) have finally gone from denial to acceptance and plans are drawn to move forward in the spirit of cooperation then lessons can be learned and something good can come out of this. I don't know how old you are, but I lived through the cold war and my predecessors lived through the blitz - this - this is just political pandering.

    3 years ago
  • OK, one last discussion entry. After this I click the Unfollow button. Nothing is to be learned by me here, only confirmed.

    Well, Andrew, odd that you bring up the war. It seemed irrelevant. I hope it was just a meandering because references to the war is of course a propaganda tactic of the far-right, and not-quite-so far right UKIP. The twisted thing being, though, that Britain fought against the far-right in WWII... but that inconvenience doesn't hamper its emotional effect on susceptible people, which is why they dish it out so often.

    I lived through the cold war too. I also lived through Enoch Powell's Rivers of Blood speech in 1968 and noticed my young life change. You see, my family was the nearest thing to a racial target in an entire town of 20,000 white working class in the very, very white North East of England. Walking home from school one day as a 7-year-old, a car slowed next to me and what I thought of at the time as grown men began what would now be termed abusing me. Maybe they were just teenagers, but to my 7-year-old eye they seemed as old as my father. When they began getting out of the car I escaped by jumping over garden fences. My guess now is that they knew my father by sight and so knew me to be his son. That was my first taste of it, 5 years before the UK even joined what was then called the EEC. So, human nature not the EU free movement of people to blame there. And, as you say your family did, my family also lived through the blitz. Worse, in fact. As a Royal Marine Commando my father landed on the deadly shores of Normandy, saw half of his platoon killed beside him, and, along with the reaming half, was eventually captured. The Germans then immediately singled him out for execution because of his dark skin (he was a quarter Indian, you see) but his comrades stood in front of him, saying, "Shoot one of us and you have shoot all." They didn't shoot, but he spent a year being singled out for abuse as a PoW. After the war he, the privately educated, decorated for bravery, son of a Lt. Col. in the British Raj, often found himself a target back in his native UK. He was attacked at work not long after the Blood speech. Numerous overt racial incidents occurred in the following years. A brick came through the window in the mid-80s narrowly missing my 62-year-old mother, thrown by local racist thugs. You see, things got bad around that time following the National Front's recruitment in the North-East, who took advantage of the unemployment caused by the closure of the local traditional industries during the Thatcher years. My father was still the only "immigrant" in town, but somehow, in the eyes of some, thousands of town folk losing their jobs was all his fault. And he wasn't even an immigrant. And certainly not a Muslim. Catholic, in fact, although not practising, unlike my devout Irish mother. Not that the local racist thugs would even have known what a Muslim was back then, but that didn't stop them hating. They always find a target. Once it was the Jews. Still is, for the far-right, although they hate Muslims even more... which allows them to vocally support Israel's military actions and claim it proves they are not anti-Semitic. No, it just proves they hate Muslims even more than they hate Jews.

    I myself was attacked a number of times, most occurring in my late teens. Attempted attacks, that is - I had an oddly charmed life in that town in that I always won my fights, and swiftly. Pre-emptive action was my saviour whenever it looked sticky. Sitting in a bar or walking home, trouble sometimes came knocking too loudly, and my fists would fly when I knew it was time to act. And by that way I developed a local reputation that made people cautious of tangling with me. Of course, now it would be knives that confronted me. Thank God we have gun control... for now. If we twin with Trumpton, who knows what will go on. And I see Farage has been praising that very same shitgibbon today.

    Ironically, many of my home area's unemployed builders found work in Germany during that 80s period, taking advantage of the free movement of people within the EU. Yet now people over here are attacking Polish builders. Maybe they should show re-runs of Auf Wiedersehen, Pet. Yes, they should, for one day UK brickies may again be desperate for work... in any country they can find it, to send wages back to their grateful families in whatever the residue of the UK will be called should Scotland and perhaps even Northern Ireland scarper.

    Your opinion of the EU seems to largely mirror the (less extremely) distorted view that has been presented in barrel loads by the Mail, Telegraph, Sun etc. for more than two decades. Don't you know that that tone was set by none other than Boris? Sacked by the Times for inventing quotes, in 1988 he was taken on by the Telegraph and made their Brussels correspondent. All rather dull work for jolly Boris... so he began spicing up his stories.... adding scandal... and his paymasters loved it and encouraged him. Soon he was even inventing stories. He's on record as admitting to it. Worse than admitting it - boasting of it. Certain other newspapers saw that the telegraph was on to a sheet-selling winner and instructed their own Brussels correspondents to follow suit. Thus began a quarter of a century of EU denigration and demonisation. It culminated in Boris himself leading the charge, for self-serving reasons, against the demon that he himself first painted from his imagination in lurid colours... even though he surely actually really wants the UK to remain in the EU. Could be too late now, though.

    I see you adhere to blaming the death of Jo Cox on the fellow's mental health. That's a view the far-right has certainly been keen to promote. Well, he was indeed a sad loner, it seems. A radicalised, hate-filled sad loner who went out to kill. In short, a terrorist. Just like the shoe bomber.

    Now, where's that Unfollow button...

    3 years ago
    • I admire the candidness of your reply and I mentioned the cold war/WWII only for some perspective since this nation and the world as a whole has weathered far greater challenges than the UK disentangling itself from an EU it no longer wants to be a part of.

      I certainly don't perceive these events to be (as in your words) "a national emergency, one as serious as the wartime threat of Nazi invasion." but you're as entitled to your opinion as I am mine - I can certainly understand your fears a little better now even if I don't share them.

      Regarding the experiences of yourself and your family I can only say that hate crime is unacceptable and needs to be eradicated but such sentiments are deeply ingrained in some people and all we can do is continue to promote and practice acceptance and equal rights for UK residents irrespective of their race and gender.

      And no, my opinion of the EU has been tarnished by laws and regulations being enacted against the public interest and in favour of big business and political stakeholders - the same as with any corrupt government (such as the UK's) - there's no guarantee that things will be any better outside of the EU (in fact, in all likelihood things won't change at all if we still want single market access) but if the people don't protest these things then gradually their ability to influence policy will be eroded to nothing whatsoever.

      And lastly regarding Jo Cox - of course the murderer's mental health is in question as indeed is the mental health of anyone that commits such atrocities - 'terrorist' or otherwise.

      I hope your fears for the future of the UK are ultimately proved unfounded and that you regain your passion for film making.

      3 years ago
  • Dear all;
    I've just finished to read the whole discussion.
    As an Italian and Italy based and EU citizen who is(was?) actively thinking about a career in the film industry starting from a relocation in the UK, I feel really "dazed and confused" about both the Brexit implications for The UK and British people everyday life and also for the Uk film industry. If I could guess a safe way for the Uk now I think it should be a EEA agreement like the Norway status for example..but this means that probably EU incentives and funding for the UK film industry could be not guaranteed, however the freedom of movement of people,things and the EU market should be guaranteed. Honestly I think that Farage is a asshole, a egotistic racist and not a "english patriots", especially because of now The whole UK could risk a disintegration, I am talking about Scotland and even if less probably, of the Norther Ireland. The EU buracracy isn't perfect, the structure of The EU parliament and commission must be upgraded in the direction of a more inclusive political agenda and not only following the Euro currecy(€) shifting and bank diktat...ok but HEY! The UK has the £ not the €! so a national Bank and the power to "make" new money and control the "Money flow"...The UK is an island in the North of the Europe! So thanks(or despite)to is geography the immigrants form outside the EU are in a very low number! In italy we're helping thousand and thousand of poor African refugees..and our economy is absolutely lower the the UK one!...last but not least..The UK received(and nowadays still receives until the Brexit will become real) a huge amount of money in sectors like agriculture not to mention that the majority of the England and wales Economy from the '80 is certainly based on the services sector, not to mention the London "hub" for finance linking the whole Europe to the Asian market and the USA/Canada. and as you say, Cinema and media!, without these money what could happen?. So the UK have always been in a very ideal position in the EU!Now?
    The UK also obtained a deferral for the benefits given to every EU citizen in every state of the EU immediately..not in the UK according with this agreeement(that now will never become real) even for skilled EU immigrants for 4-7 years!!!!!So WHAT IS THE PROBLEM? I guess that when economy and common people feels like something is not like the "golden oldies day" of the GREAT Britan, or the EMPIRE,(both a "state of mind" out from the history, and a ENEMY is targeted, the way to rise up and solve everything is to just vote to change...change for change against someone...following the instinct against immigrants(even if the UK has one of the lower number of unemployed) some nostalgy of the pre WWII attitude that dreams about" a GREATER BRITAIN against the EU rules"...what Can I say..I am not british so that people eventually vote, and eventually choose...but people has to be free to choose when well informed and not Tory not Labour seems to really want the "REMAIN" REALLY. Probably the "Anglosphere" is the right place for a brighter UK(or England)? I don't know but I wish you all, my British brothers and sister the best of all, hoping to be always free to move and cooperate as before.
    I've always admired the UK literature, cinema and liberal society, I grew up with a mix of British and American books and movies, as well as of other countries, but my first(and by now only feature's screenplay has been written in English) and my ideas was(and now?) have been since 2 years to move to London to start for a chance to write/direct also thanks to the EU exchange.

    I think that for every woman or man the freedom to move and work in a whole continent is a must but if not in the future I wish UK(or England and Wales?) a safe landing and a smart cooperation.
    Personally, I've been working on a project linked with an EU commission exchange between EU citizen, Experienced and young "Want to be" entrepreneurs in every area of the businness, so also in the Film and media industry. This program if anyone of you, apart you PADDY ;) could be interest for any personal purpose is: is tailored for all the EU countries and it's just an example of the chance of being part of the EU.

    @Paddy Robinson Griffin: Dear Friend, I am so sad to hear that the feature process is so sick and uncomfortable...I wish a better second part of the process!!(more details soon in pvt)
    @Dan Selakovic: Very interesting to have a USA point of view about Brexit!By the way and I hope it isn't inappropiate.. but I am wondering about: A decent script without a well known director/cast could benefit from a "pilot"short with a pro Editing or in the USA is all about people attached for newers writers , writers/directors?Are still in the USA new producers that still starts everything really believing in a good treatment and a smart script even without writer's own funding?
    @Alwyne Kennedy: I've tried to feel "in your shoes"...not easy 'cos at this stage I am only a writer without ant credits apart "miscellaneous crew".Please finish you film, in a way or another things are going to be fixed by new political agreements. People, simple people, in the moment when will be clear that idiots like Farage(and failed like Cameron and also Corbyn for is nosense light position)lied and lied a lot about the real reason of the problem of common people(cuts in the school sistem/NHS/wrong political choice about EU ) and epocal changes in the whole economic area of the Western countries, then people will find another "enemy2 to fight against for..and I guess it will be the next PM, not the immigrants, ...maybe Theresa May?...and when she comes..people suddenly will remeber that " The iron Lady era"..the cuts..the problems..and(but I hope to be wrong) the violence are there once again. But I really not wish you this.So go on and nevermind about out there. You Family and so you had made and are making your country(and the EU;)...) so you have to be proud of who you are and by the way of what you have done... like your film!
    @Nathalie Mylan Hickson: I truly agree with you, I am quite certain that dangerous winds are going to blow in all the european nations...Front national in France, extreme right side parties in nederlands, Eastern europe and parties against the system like M5S or podemos in Spain(the M5S and Podemos are not racist but they exist as a results of the deep political crisis that is a direct consequences of the economical crisis)'s all about ghosts of fears and uncertainty that politicians "rides" to avoid to admit their difficulties in managing the new millennium era of the old world..with the illusion that "small is better"and "alone" is smarter nations can't go so far especially littel nations without own rpimary resources(Oil, gas etc). I am also master level educated in science(biology ecology and post grad in nutrition) and the Erasmus scheme as well as the freedom of movement of researchers could be another great topic in a isolated UK...but let's see and good luck for the election in really need a real new PM option both in the left and centre-right side to defeat Marine Le Pen! A racist like our Salvini in Italy!
    @Andrew Morgan: In a certain way I understand your point of view, it's interesting to see what's going to happen and how UK will react and act at this stage...maybe I could also understand(even if not agree with) people who voted for LEAVE but only the ones that votes for LEAVE for a impulsive reaction aganst the status quo...the ones that are in troubles..defeated..frightned...unenployed...But not the Proud to be nationalistic ones...Uk has all the pros to the EU in the reality and only a little bit of cons...for example the NHS that I think it's one of the topic used by Farage to enlight the fire simply can't go on without the well educated and very important doctor and nurse of EU countries...and the skilled migrants visa could be not so attractive also for a lot of professionals...By the way in my opinion of an external observer I just underline the fact that about the 32% of young people vote against more than the 70% of over 65...this is one of the worst thing of a referendum that ask about the present but above all THE future of a sad...but once again people votes and people now because of"Alea iacta est"...let's see what is going to happen.

    Finally I want to apologize for typos and mistakes...I am not a mothertongue and my language level is far to be perfect but I think it's ok for communicate(obiouvsly when I've written a script in English I asked for editors and grammar check ;)and so in the future!...)

    Here some maybe useful links about the discussion:

    3 years ago
    • Hiya, looks like you've got a better handle on this than a lot of people here at the moment!

      As for the film, I think in honesty this one has been so painful you're better off out of it. It's nearly killed me :,-(

      3 years ago
    • If I understand you correctly, Sergio, a short based on a feature script is still a viable way to raise funding here, as long as it is part of a complete package, including a prospectus. But with unknowns, expect not to raise very much, or nothing, at all. If the "unknowns" make a short that wins one of the top 5 festivals, that can help considerably.

      Here's what is important to understand about the U.S.; the studios no longer finance midrange films. With the right script and connections, you might be able to get money out of a mini-major like Lionsgate. But without connections and unknown/untried director, cast, etc. chances are near nil.

      The American film industry is mostly made up of extremely high budget and micro budget films. To get funding, the genre must be one that doesn't depend on "names." "The Purge" franchise comes to mind. If I were you, I'd stay in Italy, and do a no-budget feature. At least then, if it were good, you'd have a calling card film for the U.S.

      3 years ago
    • @Paddy Robinson-Griffin: Oh I don't know..maybe just really interested in the topic and, very often in social-economic-political trends...but not an expert:)!
      ...Yes,about the film, maybe you're right...I wish you a safe way to face it sucessfully;)

      3 years ago
    • @Dan Selakovich: Thank you Dan!So the ways are more or less two: Shoot an outstanding short or shoot a no budget feature with a astonishing script...The fact is that..with no money a short could be in a way or another maybe planned, ma a low budget one(and how is a budget for a 5-10 minutes short...a nosense question but a keypoint) BUT a feature with no budget it's a really hard challenge...if really without money the only way could be to get involved decent technical department and actors only for the power and beauty of the script...with no or almost no need of lights and free locations or maybe one two locations to maximize all..."The Purge" was made by Universal :)...but ok I understand what you're suggesting in a way or another the script is almost all.What about something Glengarry_Glen_Ross(film) or a POV film?Not in my mind but I suppose these kind of feature could be "pushed streight on" just by a strong script. OR if a script is strong even if technically weak for the lack of budget who judge a future profitability and talent of a new director is interested in find out the "promises"and the "eye"?
      Consider that in my unexpert mind LIONSGATE seems to be a very big name...however for the UK film market...but surely the USA are or a bigger scale...Yes for the moment I must stay in Italy and trying to do something valuable, but let'see about next future for a relocationand/or experience out there.
      By the way, just for info, what are the 5 very important festival? Sundance, Telluride?Tribeca? the EU?Cannes?Berlin?Venice? or other smaller are however considered?
      I feel like I am just a grane of sand in the Carl Sagan's "pale blue dot" in the Universe with almost no connections( apart some bright minds here;), no money and just an aim to develop a script to shoot..maybe it's enough...maybe not, but thank you for your advice!If possible I would like to ask you some details about this topic in pvt (just not to fill this BREXIT topic with other things...)

      3 years ago
    • @Sergio Falchi Sure, ask away. But really, I'd post a question here on Shooting People. There are a lot of really knowledgable people here that have been around the industry for as long as me--or longer--as well as some extremely talented young people making movies for nothing.

      Universal didn't fund or make the first "Purge," they were the distributor. "The Purge" was made for 3 million. A studio couldn't make anything for that cheap (they are all signatories to SAG, IATSE, WGA and DGA).

      Lions gate is bigger now, for sure. But they started out in a very small pond, and will still fund a few midrange films, unlike the major studios.

      It's not impossible to make a good film for no money. "My Dinner with Andre" comes to mind. "Tangerine" more recently (I doubt the 100k budget. Seems high).

      Look, whatever you do, a feature or a short, it's best if it wins some awards at festivals. Hollywood can't judge a filmmaker unless someone else (like Sundance), says they are talented.

      I honestly don't know why anyone wants to come from Europe to make films in Hollywood. Hollywood is a cesspool. Make something in your native language in Italy. The light is beautiful there. Stick three characters in a small village and shoot exteriors with an iPhone if need be. How much can that cost?

      3 years ago
    • @Dan Selakovich, Thank you for your kindness and advice and you availability for possible further questions...Yes I understand your suggestion...obiouvsly a super script is more than half or maybe 3/4 of the work in a short or also a feature with no budget. To be honest I am not looking to make films in Hollywood...especially not at this stage;), I am just curious to know something more about the USA film industry, thank you! By the way when I say no budget it really means no budget...or maybe something to cover catering, so this is why it could be so hard to go on, here in Italy the cashflow of producers are near to zero and almost everything happens thanks to governmental funds... but not strictly impossible, 'cos as you've said...exteriors with direct sunlight and a CANON /D with 24p or/and an I phone could be easily managed... where I live is extremely difficult to find mate shooters to pair up with, but for a first step something could be arranged in a way or another, maybe also with other SP there, aha perhaps offering a post shooting holiday in mt paradise island;). The feature I wrote(tailored for the USA market) is not possible to shoot with zero budget(maybe low) but no drama because needs another(or maybe more) deep rewrite...I have a short ready to shoot so the point it's just to have a minimun amount of money for the the simple expenses and shoot;)...I think only that " I know that word count zero" and that there are a lot of people sure to be "genius" without nothing really strong upon their belt, not mine idea. So let's go straight on step by step, first Sardinia(my island) then far away.
      Last but not least shoot in italian could limit a lot the audience and the chance to apply serious festival but not sure if it could be better to shoot in italian with english subtitles or shoot in english...maybe it's simpler in italian to better manage dialogues and above all actor's availability here,that should be happy to play more or less unpaid or very low paid.

      3 years ago
  • What a bunch of miserable whingers! It was a democratic vote across the whole country and all social classes, and the Brexit vote won through!

    I take exception to the current false meme been pushed around in the press that it was the fault of uneducated, racist working class folk in the North. If you had watched the live referendum night you would have noticed that the Brexit vote was slightly higher, and the Remain slightly lower, in all the counting areas. Post Brexit surveys have revealed, for example, that 46% of people with professional and / or degree qualifications voted for Brexit. That isn't fitting the narrative in the 'Gruaniad', is it?

    I also feel uncomfortable, although it is human nature I suppose, that the Remainders now call upon, anticipate, and secretly want to see the UK engulfed by racism. As if to rpove them right, and the Brexiteers wrong. To all the non-UK members of this forum, may I say that the UK was, and never has been endemically racist in my life-time. I estimate, based on my life experience that approx 5% of people are genuinely racist. And the few that are are not all working class or uneducated. Well-of, educated folk are better at hiding it, that's all.

    So I would ask everyone to not to 'talk up' racist attacks, but simply condemn them. Zero tolerance. Predicting more racist attacks is an enabler and a motivator for the extremeists.

    I would also, on a personal note, state I was shocked by the use of the word 'Kristallnacht' by one poster in this thread. My wife and I are not Jewish but my wife does have Jewish relatives, all of whom have had relatives and friends killed in the Holocaust. I would suggest that the poster, once their head has cleared, has the good sense and good taste to remove that remark from this forum. To conflate Brexit and Kristallnacht the most extreme comment I have seen anywhere this week.

    Finally, in the way of reaching out, and as a peace offering, may I make two suggestions to re-boot you, remotivate you, get you up and running again.


    If you are on the fringes of writing, film making etc then it's a very tough place to get anything done. BUT! You are already a fighter, already a very determined and focussed person, or you wouldn't be on Shooting People. Brexit just means that there are more epic stories to be told. Who's going to tell them?


    Even inside the creative industries, I reckon, from quiet interpersonal chats I have had, about 10% of folk voted Brexit. Of course, they've kept their mouth shut. The want to work again, don't they? Only a fool (like me) would write a post like this!

    So here's your next motivation - you can't let someone like me win! I can imagine some hot-shot producer finally secures some decent funding. He rings round Rufus / Guy / Penelope asking for scripts, offering real work.

    Their partners all reply the same thing. 'They've been locked in their bedroom for six days now, weeping. The room is dark, the curtains drawn, and they are lying on the bed with a bag of frozen peas on their head to cope with a really nasty migraine. They've said they will never do a single creative thing again'.

    Now the said producer rings me. My response? 'When can I start?'

    (rubs his hands)

    3 years ago
  • @Gerry Byron: Dear Gerry, I really don't want to define all(or the majority) ofthe supporter of the LEAVE as racist in the real sense of the word...I've said that the general mood and claims that lead politicians like FARAGE were almost always in that area...I am not british and I can't say that only people without a degree choose LEAVE. I apologize with you if my post have hurt you in any the way I hate all the "snob" divisions between "educated" or uneducated, working class or professionals and so on so on...I am not used to judge people by their education nor by their bank account(trust in me here in Italy as well as in the UK this is a habit that a LOT of people simply adopt as a sad). But I've just underlined the age-vote trend and also that the idea to be "strongest if alone" is, in my simple unexpert opinion, in a way or another linked with the old idea of the GREAT britain as well as with the(maybe genuine) idea that in a certain way the EU is nowadays only a bunch of bias and problem for new immigrants and some laws to be attended with an unclear idea or where or by who these laws are "tailored", not considering that the benfits for almost all sector of the economy are huge and the UK has in the real sense of the word a "special position". But I've written twice...British voted so British doubt about it. I can't speak for others but I just imagine that the "Kristallnacht" word is just a emotional reaction and sometimes feelings and fears can lead to a strong word or hyperbole...this is the point...How many people voted following their(legitimate) gut feeling and how many people were really informed about the beloved"special by matter of fact" status of the UK?(£ not € and deferral of the benefit for the EU immigrants for example) The only perceived pros of a LEAVE could be LESS EU immigrants..this is the key no racism...but the idea that the EU citizen in the UK are the major problem...It's a lecit idea, just a sad one...not racism just a sad view of how to solve the problem and challenge of a nations...Any serious economist had predicted a economical pros for the UK with a LEAVE...but just opinions and as Voltaire said"I Could Disapprove of What You Say, But I Will Defend to the Death Your Right to Say It";).I wish the best for all British and a smart collaborations whatever we could have to show at the airport:).
    About your last two sceneries: Hey, I prefer to choose to not choose aha...maybe looking for a brexit blues story to tell, and after a safe sleep ready to answer to a "hypotetical" call;)...maybe together aha!

    3 years ago
    • Well, I love Europe but not the EU. I felt we should repatriate our own powers and legal system. A lot of people agree with me - and I also hope the EU machine will be reformed so as not to be so oppressive towards countries like Greece and other Mediterranean states.

      There is something profoundly distasteful and oppressive about a club that wants to punish members who ask for change or who wish to leave. Perhaps the EU motto should be 'The beatings will continue until the morale improves'.

      Anyway I think you agree - and my points stands - that whichever way you look at it, Brexit is an epic moment in the lives of people, and there will be wonderful stories to be told.

      3 years ago
    • @Gerry Byron, Yes I understand your feelings and in a first instance I could agree with you. It's not different from the feelings that countries like Greece but also(even if extremely different countries not to be confused for the great differene in their economy and resources) Italy. The point in my opinion is that Europe is far to be the idea that should be, but Every nations, (and the UK as I explained surely in a special position towards others) that is in the EUROPE has to collaborate to have pros and minimize cons...because the pros both ideally that nowadays especially practical are hugely more than the cons, according to numbers!The EU machine and "oligarchy" is made up by PM in first instance so I suppose that, once again there isn't any monster but the euro currency management perhaps...but UK is free from € central bank control, so even the TROIKA can't do anything against the UK. Just to joke... It's like when in INSIDE OUT of Pixar the rage emotion wins against the others and the girl escape from the family house...against something not clear, against the idea to be less powerful and less free than in the older times, instead of exploring the real situation of the UK in this EUROPE and the future of people, especially younger people but also poor and older people(think about NHS). Again I think that leavers are not stupid people, just the "narrations" of the referendum side wasn't really honest.Perhaps I would have voted for leave if British who never know? last but not least if the 5% were racist, this percentage was enough to win according to 48%.52%(it's a hyperbole but...why not?).
      I am pretty sure that the reason for calling this referendum in the UK were genuinely linked with last elections(Cameron strategy to call against something else the feeling of the people against is governement) and so any serious real idea for the future were planned in the real interest of the UK, British voted perhaps in the same way that Italians could have done if a referendum would be call, who ever knows?
      No drama, I am also sure that in a way or another everything will go in a safe disaster just deep change(or maybe just a light change and a not complete BREXIT?).
      Yes, stories to be told will flourish in these months/years. Now I quit because I think I have written and "talked" to much about a topic of a country that, above all, is not mine,(but I admire and respect deeply) even if for me, you(all) are still EUROPEAN citizen like me, brothers. The history is passing through the BREXIT, for sure...the best is always yet to came, I wish you only pros for all!...and Have a nice script:)!

      3 years ago
    • will always be without frontiers, in a way or another a "Guild" or a collective of European filmmaker, painter, writer and so on..will be organized for sure, especially in the first stage's shooters, Brexit or BrexIN.

      3 years ago
  • SP champ Ben Blaine has also gone viral with this:

    3 years ago
  • Londoners: Check this. We're going.

    Devoted and Disgruntled: Shall we Create a European Union of Artists?

    3 years ago
  • Have been trying to keep track of discussion..Yes be great if we all made films & or wrote about it. Thanks to Alwyne who has left the building & Sergio for replying to me & getting answers to info on film I was hoping for, perhaps a European collaboration re some past activism at some stage if can get funds:) I am in London still.
    Paddy, Andrew, Dan all interesting reading which am getting my head around.
    Thanks Cath for article although a short film be great:) Thanks for info re a European artist Meetup. Will try to attend.
    Here's to respecting differences & enjoying moments whatever it brings.

    3 years ago
  • Hi All With another general election coming is everyone mobilising for Remain? I missed the European meetup as my disabilities affect me. How was it & is it worth arranging another one? Thanks Nathalie

    2 years ago