ASK & DISCUSS INDEX

4 years ago - Huw Wahl

Hi Syd

I predominantly use 16mm at the moment.

I always rough it out at about 100 quid per 100ft roll, which includes dev and scan. Its sometimes a bit cheaper, but the extra will cover postage etc.

If you want a quick scan buy the film and dev and scan from frame 24, then contact kodak to scan (frame24 give you a voucher code for each film). Kodak can turn a dev and scan around in a day.

If you want a tad cheaper get it from Gauge film, but look to wait a month for the results.

For what it's worth I prefer the scan from gauge, I think he uses a black magic scanner and it feels more 'milky' to me and more like film. But Kodak scan is more crisp. It's a matter of aesthetics to what you prefer.

In terms of renting, I am not sure who does that - I think there used to be an artists film place in London that did Bolex rentals?
I'm sure some googling would dig something up. It also depends if you want a camera to do 100ft rolls like a Bolex or Scoopic, or if you wanna go 400ft you'll need arri or aaton.

In terms of developing yourself (if that's what you were asking?) Colour dev is a faff and costs as much if not more than a lab can do. But if you go black and white you can save a fair bit doing it yourself as b&w developing is now mostly always by hand (I think). But you need a lomo tank.

Cheers
Huw

4 years ago - Huw Wahl

https://www.fourcornersfilm.co.uk/equipment?type=16mm-film-cameras
These guys are good

And also, don't get hung up about super 16mm. If you go for bolex you can just crop in for s16 frame in post. Especially if you 4k scan.

4 years ago - Franz von Habsburg FBKS MSc

A great answer from Huw. Kodak will provide much encouragement. A BAFTA winner was shot on B&W 16mm so well done! For 16mm from 8mm you have a wider camera choice too - Arri, Caméflex or Aaton! Good luck! franz@imperialfilmproductions.com

4 years ago - Mark Wiggins

You can also buy a 16mm camera on Ebay (ex-rental stuff being sold off), then sell it again after you have finished. Then you only have the neg, dev and scan costs. I know several people who h ave done that.

4 years ago - Huw Wahl

If you do buy on ebay, make sure you can see recent footage shot by the camera, otherwise it's a bit of a gamble

4 years ago - Syd Heather

Hello Huw, Mark and Franz,

Wow, thank you all so much for all of this advice and insight - it's really helpful.

@Huw - thank you so much for taking the time to give such great options and a rough idea for costs.

I am very intrigued by the aesthetics of Gauge Film. It will be interesting to see what you mean in terms of the comparison between Kodak's cleaner image and the milky image from Gauge. I agree, it depends on personal preference but also what may suit the film aesthetic too. All very interesting.

Four Corners look great too! I've added them to my list of notes. :)

I'm not looking to develop and process myself, but have been suggested a few people that are starting to do that. I'd be intrigued to see how they get on and will consider all options.

@Mark - that's a good idea about buying a camera from ebay and selling it afterwards if required. I agree with Huw that it makes sense to check the footage that was last shot on it.

@Franz - thank you for the choices of cameras to look into. Very helpful.

Thank you all so much for this - it's really helped and given me a lot of things to research and think about. I'd love to keep in touch and let you know how I get on if I go down this route. I definitely want to shoot a feature 16mm B&W but at this stage I'm looking at practicals and costs to try and make it work, and then I'd go for it.

4 years ago - Huw Wahl

Final thought - when I last shot b&w I used 7222 Kodak, but another route is ORWO https://www.orwouk.com/
James Holcombe runs that, he is a master of 16mm - he may offer a dev and scan service, I'm not sure, but if not he will know who can

Feel free to keep in touch

4 years ago - Syd Heather

Thanks, Huw, that's a strange coincidence - I stumbled across ORWO yesterday! I will definitely be enquiring with James at some point to see if he does dev/scan too. Thanks for all of the great advice and support, I really appreciate it and it's helped me a lot. I'll definitely keep in touch with how I progress with it. :)

4 years ago - Vincenzo (Vinnie) Marranghino

Hi Syd, How is it going?

Just adding to what was said about Frame24/Kodak end others. I'd consider different companies depending on how much films stock you are planning on using.
Frame24 offers film stock, with development and scan. 400ft (11m06s at 24fps) and 100ft (2m46s at 24fps) Daylight spools (which means that you can load the camera in daylight, without the need of a changing bag)
here a link to various films stocks,
https://www.frame24.co.uk/online-store/Black-%26-White-Film-c27233497

And here an example of 100ft, including dev and scan (2k prores log 4444), which comes down to £94.
https://www.frame24.co.uk/online-store/Kodak-16mm-Double-X-Black-&-White-Negative-100ft-33m-7222-p99568810

Alternatively, you can source your film stock and organise Dev and Scan with either Kodak or Cinelab.
on this page, you can find the info of the labs
https://www.frame24.co.uk/process-paid-package

Renting cameras if you were to go for 400ft rolls, the cheapest I worked with (fatlama excluded) is probably the Aaton XTR Prod 16mm at https://slvision.co.uk/aaton-xtr-prod
Other companies with s16 cameras are
Procamtake2
https://procamtake2.com/uk/equipment/film-cameras

OnestopFIlms
https://www.onestopfilms.co.uk/arriflex-416-plus/

The downside of using the Bolex, even if it's converted to S16, is that you won't have a precise video tap for monitoring. You could get one DYI, but it won't be as good as the feed you get on the other cameras. I own Bolex Converted to s16 and used it on some shoots, it's fun and all but depending on what you have to shoot, it can slow things down.

This is my 2 cents, I hope it helps :)

4 years ago - Syd Heather

Hey Vincenzo,

Yes, this is really helpful too - thank you so much. Especially in terms of being able to monitor it on set, and of course the costs of renting a lot more equipment to cater for this could add up. It totally depends on what you're shooting of course too. All of your figures are really helpful too, thank you. :)

Also - I'm not sure if you know but we're both on Bafta Crew and follow each other on Instagram, as you did a micro-short with Zara Symes and we worked together on the second micro-short challenge. So small world and I am already a little aware of your work - a small world as ever! So I'm glad to connect this way too.

Hopefully we can work together on something down the line too. :)

4 years ago - Lee 'Wozy' Warren

Hey Syd

I cut my teeth on s8mm and 16mm/s16mm film back in the day! And back then it was expensive to shoot on film. Nowadays, my thoughts are that shooting on film would be for aesthetic/creative reasons only and providing a unique vision that the director wants to achieve. However, this may or may not be you.

My thoughts - by asking this question, I would assume that you have no prior experience with film. If this is the case and that you also desire to ultimately become a DoP, then I suggest you undertake professional training in camera work and film specifically. You should start as an assistant on a film based camera unit to gain experience. Then progress up the ladder; clapper loader etc... But you must also be aware that if the goal is to become a cameraman (DoP) etc, then opportunities to do so on any professional shoots will be limited due to the overwhelming use now of digital cameras.

Learning about film types etc is an essential skill you'll need. Kodak.com has a lot of learning resources that could help you. Also, understanding basic photography is helpful. Even digital cameras still use ISO settings, like film uses, that you can practice on.

Wozy

4 years ago - Lee 'Wozy' Warren

Also, forgot to say - if you don't have aspirations to become a film cameraman and just want to shoot something on actual film, then I would suggest you get an experienced DoP and or camera team with film experience to do the work for you.

Wozy

4 years ago - Richard Anthony Thomas

If you looking for a DoP with 16mm and 35mm experience. please have a look at my show reel. www.richardasthomas.com.

4 years ago - Syd Heather

Hi Wozy,

Thank you for the response and your insight, that's all super helpful.

I'm not actually a DOP (a writer, director, and producer type) but I have been a camera operator ad shot on film a few times in the past about 10 years ago (!) as a student. So my questions are more from the producing and logistics side of things at the moment as I'm researching and thinking about ideas that could work visually and practically with the film aesthetic. As I enjoyed it way back when, but just haven't been able to do it since then - but I'm actively thinking about it again.

I've been speaking to a lot of DOP's on here and in other FB groups since making my post and it's all been extremely beneficial and helpful, so I agree I would only shoot something with an experienced DOP who's worked and shot with film a lot, and I'd like to do some smaller tests myself too - just to experiment with something smaller beforehand.

Thanks for all the insight and advice - I really appreciate everything that you and everyone else in the thread has provided - lots to think about!

Speak soon,
Syd

4 years ago - Syd Heather

Hey Richard,

Thanks for your answer to this thread too - sorry I missed this the first time. I'll definitely keep you in mind for future projects that I'd be looking to shoot on film, but it's early days at the moment - I'm just looking at costs and logistics right now and then figuring out if I could make something and what I'd need to make it. :)

Speak soon,
Syd

4 years ago - Sam Brewster

It's worth getting in touch with film schools as they may have some old SR2s or SR3s that they can loan out for cheap/free (so long as you have insurance) especially if you work with some students or alumni. If you do go for Bolex, make sure you're on a crystal sync camera (for sound sync).

For stock if you're on a budget you can also call around for short ends (anywhere that develops/scans film). When developing I used iDailies to develop & scan my s16 film and they were great, and not too expensive from what I remember.

4 years ago - Alexander Vanegas Sus

Just jumping in cause I shoot on both S8 and S16. Everything to be said has already been said and I actually got some useful info out of this post as well!

For all you other film shooters, please feel free to get in touch on social media. I love to keep an eye on other people's work.

Insta: @alexander.v_super8