ASK & DISCUSS INDEX

9 years, 11 months ago - Jeremiah Quinn

I really appreciate it when festivals tell you that you've been rejected, even if they use the whole email list, including successful submissions, and write, "If you haven't yet heard from us then unfortunately...".

Also, it's very annoying when it takes a few seconds to actually scan through a lengthy preamble to get to the word "rejected" . How hard can it be to make it instantly clear? Hamburg does it in the most painless way, the subject line of their rejection email is, "So SORRY from Hamburg". I think any communication from a festival shows that they care about their work and they go up in my ratings. If they write to reject, or to tell you that your film wasn't uploaded, or a personal rejection saying how much they liked your film and that they can't play it for whatever reason. All of these things show they care and they are worth applying to.

If your films are winning awards and going to good festivals on the circuit, but consistently don't get picked by a particular festival, you have to decide at what point you'll make a decision and blacklist them. Maybe they don't like your style, maybe they don't watch the films, maybe their systems are rubbish and they lose films... It doesn't matter and you needn't worry about it. Just write their name down in your little black book, and carry on developing your relationship with festivals that care. Sing their praises, tell other filmmakers about them and build their prestige the way they build yours by plucking your film out of the pile and showing it to the world.

9 years, 11 months ago - A D Cooper

If film makers aren't to receive a rejection email as a courtesy, what pray are we getting for our entry fee? Surely the not-inconsiderable amount it costs to enter could cover an intern or someone to ping us a simple 'thanks but sorry' email well in advance of the programme announcement. Festivals often remark about the hundreds/thousands of entries they have.One festival in south west London just sent me a link to the programme so I could see who'd been selected (clearly not my film). This still seems lazy. I'm aware that festivals are often run by volunteers who are doing it for the love of film. Well, that's film makers too who are usually seriously out of pocket making the film and entering the festivals.

Film Freeway are a good alternative to WAB (their help desk is particularly responsive), but there's also Click for Festivals, Short Film Depot, Festival Focus and others. WAB do hold a major card that it's the only way to get a IMDB page for a short, and you get one as soon as you enter a particular class of festival.

There's also the question about whether a festival selection and lovely laurels on your marketing actually count for a row of beans. Perhaps that's another whole debate.

9 years, 11 months ago - Kays Alatrakchi

I know that this is a very controversial thing to say, but I see film festivals becoming more and more irrelevant by the day. The truth of the matter is that beyond a handful of festivals, most of them are not likely to get you noticed, get press to cover you, or do anything positive for your film other than get (many times) a rather small audience to watch your hard work. I've argued that if the goal is to get eyeballs to watch your work, perhaps money spent on some targeted banner ads and a Vimeo-available video will get you far more views than you're likely to get at a festival, and for considerably cheaper than the entry fees of a dozen or so submissions. If you just directed the next Whiplash and you feel that you have a great shot to not only get into Sundance, but also become the darling of the festival -- congrats and go for it. For the rest of us who are working to better our skills, but who realistically have a decent-but-not-brilliant film on our hands....we might opt for other strategies!

9 years, 11 months ago - Stephan George

It's sad to read that I'm not the only one having bad experiences with Raindance. My film is still marked as "in consideration" on WAB, 2 days after the notification date and 9 days after their press launch. Just poor. Sites like WAB or FF were built so that shouldn't happen as I'm sure when Raindance logs onto WAB they can easily check what films they haven't marked as accepted or rejected....
The only reason I was using WAB was to get an imdb page quick and without complication. Didn't happen. They claim to automatically created one that goes live within two weeks, after four weeks I simply submitted my film to imdb, and it went live within days - without WAB input. imdb seems to accept everything now without checking at all...
I'm using FF now a lot, and it's clearly way better than WAB, and apparently is now more popular as well.
Talking of Raindance, I really laughed a lot when Elliot published this article:
http://www.raindance.org/6-mistakes-i-made-on-a-100k-feature/
Raindance produced a 100k feature, and did so many beginners mistakes, including not getting good publicity stills (!), not developing social media (!!) and not having a festival (!!!) strategy. Really a joke, all that stuff they teach in courses, but don't manage to get it right on their own...

9 years, 11 months ago - Ben Rider

Shameful.

9 years, 11 months ago - Ben Rider

Not to sound rude Star, but that does almost read like a plug for Raindance.

9 years, 11 months ago - Jane Sanger

Oops sorry dear Elliot Grove! What I meant is if a lot of people are not getting replies to queries or getting timely rejection notices for submissions surely if enough people write to him he will see that this needs attention.
This is a separate issue from the Raindance courses which I have been on and personally think are splendid!

9 years, 11 months ago - afia nkrumah

Hey George, sorry to hear about your situation. Film Freeway is a much better film festival application platform. They tell you when each festival's decision is made. According to their website, Raindance are not informing filmmakers who haven't got into the festival until 31st August.

9 years, 11 months ago - Tom Kelly

I got a reply from Raindance via email on 28th August rejecting my short.

9 years, 11 months ago - Richard Anthony Dunford

Doesn't surprise me raindance don't bother to inform all the filmmakers. They're all about the money and they've already got yours now. I went on one of their seminars once and they spent 60% of the day trying to sell memberships, courses and merchandise with the raindance logo on it.

I'll never forget the main guy who runs it then admitted as part of his spiel to the whole audience that when he ran a script feedback service he wouldn't even read the scripts just copy and paste standard advice and change a few character names and the title. Easy money.

9 years, 11 months ago - Jane Sanger

Hi I have just been made a judge on film freeway monthly competition TMFF and its so so interesting to watch short films and hopefully learn the process of why certain things are picked etc etc.

I do not rate Raindance as the premier film festival of GB. It surely must be BFI London Film Festival?? I would try London EastEnd Film Festival and Edinburgh as well as Raindance for UK film festivals.

I have heard that if you go on one of the Raindance courses like their MA in various stuff you are far more likely to get in to the festival.(Note on WAB they actually ask you this question) I am not sure if that is true or not.

But do enter TMFF, maybe I will judge you there!

The second thing is that you can employ a film festival agent who IF your film is good will get you in. Once you get accepted somewhere on the higher tier and Raindance is not on the higher tier then you will be accepted more easily elsewhere. But you have to be realistic, the agent will tell you where you should aim for according to the type and quality of your film. But it costs and you have to weigh up whether that is worth it to you. Don't expect Cannes and Sundance when your film is more suited elsewhere.

Lastly regarding replying to film makers that they have or have not got in, I find that appalling and you should write direct to Elliot Gould at Raindance and tell him.

9 years, 11 months ago - Ben Rider

A few years back I submitted my first short film to Raindance, and when a family friend (who is/was friends with someone who helps run the festival) enquired as to where I'd sent it, he told me that Raindance was the wrong place - as he'd heard that they don't actually watch all of the submissions, and instead pick their screenings at random and are swayed by topical subjects.

Like several of you, I have never actually received a rejection letter from Raindance - apparently they're still considering my four year old submission. Must be quite hard to watch it and reject it outright.

As a side, I have, for the most part, experienced quite positive communication from 'international' festivals (ones outside of the UK, specifically American ones).
Sadly our national institutions are quite laid back about corresponding or acting professionally, as far as I'm concerned. Obviously this is a generalisation.

FilmFreeway does seem to be more responsive than Withoutabox - in fact, when a festival recently hadn't informed me of the status of the project within two weeks of their announcement date, I contact FilmFreeway directly and demanded the film be withdrawn and refunded, which they arranged promptly. The festival apparently received a warning about upholding the user agreement. I'd recommend you pursue a similar route to be honest. It's unacceptable to simply expect submitters to spend money for an institution not to even send a courtesy rejection email.

From my side of things, the truth of these issues is the following - the film festivals which are worth entering (the ones which are professional and worth our submission fees), are sadly quite competitive and hard to get into. You might get lucky with one of the smaller fests like Raindance, but for most part, you probably will be ignored or dislike the final experience.

At the end of the day, producing work during this transition period in our medium, where film consumption is shifting from the big screens to handheld devices, where audiences prefer to download than purchase or attend events; isn't easy. We will, for the most part, have to remain patient over the next few years as new pavements are laid for produces and audiences to find each other on some sort of middle ground.

9 years, 11 months ago - Karel Bata

That's assuming the fest tells FilmFreeway!

Do remember that decisions are often arbitrary, and not to do with the quality of the film! For instance a fest may have a choice of several shorts about gynaecological serial killers (shows where my head's at) and might opt for a local film-maker...

Festivals must get very busy from the point they make their final decisions. And some no doubt want to hedge their bets in case any films fall through, as some do. But it does seem like they don't build in a system from the outset that informs those that are rejected.

Maybe we need a code of practice? But how would they sign up to that? If Withoutabox insisted that certain standards be adhered to... They make enough money from them.

9 years, 11 months ago - David Graham Scott

Had similar experiences from WAB too and I'm not wasting my money on them again.
I had a feature documentary I fired off to various festivals and it did get in a few but there were some obvious rejections from WAB which are still pending way after the screening dates.
If you don't get the early bird discount then it can cost quite a bit sending out features. It doesn't take much for them to send a quick reply. They're happy to take the money but can't be bothered telling you the film has been rejected.
I'm guessing it's the festival's fault and not WAB but it could be a breakdown in communications I guess. Bad form anyway!

9 years, 11 months ago - Al Carretta

Interesting to read these comments. Quite shocking that so many people still use Withoutabox; to be polite, it's a relic.

I run the Nightpiece Film Festival in the Edinburgh Festival Fringe. We've literally just finished the run last Saturday. We source via FILM FREEWAY and speak positively of it because the service is simply excellent.

We've now run for 2 successive years in Edinburgh and jumped from 69 submissions in 2014 to 2101 submissions from 99 countries across the world in 2015. That's a HUGE jump. Our 2015 prediction for entries was around 200. In all we selected 52 films from across the world, thematically programmed across 5 screenings and carefully curated.

We have two beautifully edited trailers; 4min main event, 10sec via and a 64 page programme detailing all the submitted films, complete with hyperlinks.

Full Trailer:
https://vimeo.com/133066312

10 Second Trailer:
https://vimeo.com/135283054

Programme:
http://issuu.com/nightpiecemedia/docs/nightpiece_film_festival_edfringe_2

I should now note we were also FREE to enter via FilmFreeway. (To be a free festival on Withoutabox costs you the best part of $1000 which is an absolute rip-off.) The standard of presented films was simply outstanding but the ratio is indicative of the level of competition 52/2101.

I could add I lost well over £1000 presenting other peoples films in Edinburgh this August but this is being run to a plan and things need to be established before they can get really popular. Films, like Film Festivals, have a life before and after the event and, here's a marketing consideration for you all, we premiered my 8th indie feature 'Carbon Foxes' as the key film in the opening programme of the festival.

Sadly, and this is fact, without my film, the event would have had no focal point as, and here's a sad reality check - few filmmakers support their films effectively beyond the initial submission process. (We had 2 UK Filmmakers who we accepted early but were never heard from again..) In a free to enter model, with explicitly worded entry requirements, a social media push is nothing.

Now, to Raindance. In 2010, I submitted my debut feature as a late submission to their festival at a cost of around £100 via Withoutabox. Much to the identical stories told here, we heard nothing until countless e-mails had been exchanged. The film could have been 'The Godfather' and it wouldn't have been accepted because that is how late past their selection process it was; dead money, exploited from a filmmaker who expected more...

So, Filmmakers, for 2016, check out Nightpiece.

'For filmmakers, by a filmmaker..'

https://filmfreeway.com/festival/NightpieceFilmFestival

9 years, 11 months ago - Chris Loizou

Hi George, it's RAindance who is at fault, I submitted a feature to them and it is still showing as 'in consideration' on film freeway, actually I cant find the listing for Raindance on WAB. Either way, looks like it didn't get selected as you've pointed out, they have announced their programming. Today is the 31st and Film Freeway are still showing my film UNTITLED as 'in consideration'. The window is becoming smaller and smaller for truly independent films. Most selected movies for the BFI/Raindance and the larger festivals are already award winning, mostly with known cast and by seasoned directors. My film is a unique contemporary noir thriller made in London, by Londoners, starring Londoners, written & directed by a Londoner. Remember estivals need press to keep their organisations going and to compete with other festivals and would forsake a truly independent unique movie for another that can guarantee known cast and filmmakers on the red carpet. Problem is, you daren't say anything that could be considered 'sour grapes'...either way please have a look at our new trailer of a completely unique, totally independent, low budget UK feature like nothing you've seen before! - please share and keep on shooting! https://vimeo.com/136654660

9 years, 11 months ago - Lee 'Wozy' Warren

Elliot Grove...

9 years, 11 months ago - Star Kennedy

I'm just a fledgling, future film maker and I've been doing various film making courses with Raindance since 2009.

Elliot has always responded to any queries that I have emailed to him very promptly, which delights me. For example, today I emailed him at 14:19 and, even though he is preparing for the Raindance Film Festival, he had replied to me by 14:29. Incredible!

His email address is on the raindance.co.uk website so if you have any queries about anything, just fire off a quick email to him.

That reminds me...it's time I renewed my Raindance membership.

Happy film making, y'all.

Star

9 years, 11 months ago - Karel Bata

Jane,

I'd love to submit to TMFF, but doesn't getting any exposure via their website - and it is an online fest, isn't it? - automatically rule you out for many other fests that require you not to have put the thing online?

Maybe too many double-negatives there...