ASK & DISCUSS INDEX

10 years, 9 months ago - GJL GJL

This approach, filming real fire closer to the camera, has been a consideration. The smoke machines and lights are going to be doing the majority of the work. As the film is set in a remote location, which is to be established at the start, I would like to end with a final image that harks back to the opening, but that now shows the devastation that the fire has caused.

10 years, 9 months ago - Andrew Morgan

There's a few approaches:

1) shoot green-screen and find/purchase high quality stock footage of forest fires - a good compositor should be able to integrate it well and add particle smoke and embers.

2) shoot in a forest location and add the smoke/fire digitally - this isn't recommended since trees move and rotoscoping the footage would be a time-consuming nightmare (unless it's against a nice, clear blue sky that can be keyed easily).

3) build a partial set with a green-screen border (how it's done on 'real' movies) - this gives you the ideal combination of practical and digital but is also likely the most expensive.

Before you do any of that though - *hire a VFX supervisor*. If you don't know this stuff, you can't blag it - your film will suffer terribly in post if you try to.

10 years, 9 months ago - GJL GJL

Hi Andrew,

Thanks for this. Going back to my original practical dust discussion, how feasible do you think it would be to create that digitally? It needs to look very dense, like a thick fog for it to work.

10 years, 9 months ago - Yen Rickeard

Experts on CGI may tell you differently, but I find the more you can do on set the better it will look.
Smoke machines in the distance and very close to the camera, orange glow and suitable lighting effects will achieve a good basis. With clever framing a portable barbecue, gas fired or wood burner can give you flames/burning wood/embers in the foreground.
Every year there are forest fires, or controlled burns, mostly quite small. If you can find some of these, and add smoke it will look good. You can get luminous day-glo orange paint which will pass as embers with the right lighting.
Good luck with it,
Yen Rickeard

10 years, 9 months ago - GJL GJL

This is my "solution" to the previous dust effect question that I posed. The majority of the story will not show any fire, just the dense smoke, and as you suggest, the idea is to use the lighting to convey the sense of the impending fire beyond the flames. I do, however, feel that it needs a shot or two to convey the scale of the situation. The first shot would be a single plume of smoke over existing footage. The second would be the devasted landscape. There likely isn't a need for a wide shot showing the raging fires, so the major work would be in that second shot.

10 years, 9 months ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin

Sounds expensive to get it looking 'right' if you plan to show flames at all. Post-fire landscape you need a matte, so basically these days you need someone to draw it for you, probably in Photoshop, then you can composite on some smoulder.

At least in the shoot, a decent outdoor/portable smoke machine and orange lamp with flicker box will get you some of the way there. Smoke will tend to be white though, and you may want clouds of thick and dark.

10 years, 9 months ago - Andrew Morgan

Oh, and if you're adding stuff digitally in post *don't use any* practical effects other than lighting and ash make-up and on clothing - smoke, embers and dust are a PITA in plates meant for compositing - all a compositor needs is clean, keyable (or at a pinch, rotoscope-able) footage of the talent and the background plates. It's essential that they can separate the two easily for this kind of work.

10 years, 6 months ago - Simon Thurman

Hi,

A VFX artist (like me ;-) ) could create this fairly simple depending on the type of shot your looking for...

1) Use stock footage of fire/smoke and composite in your footage.

2) Create a fire and smoke simulation inside a 3D program (I use FumeFX)

Your shots don't need to be still as 2D and 3D tracking footage is really simple these days and really adds a sense of realism.

If you want help give me a shout.

Cheers

Si

10 years, 9 months ago - Andrew Morgan

Check out Mission Impossible Ghost Protocol - there's a great dust storm sequence there - and no, dust storms don't look like smoke. To do something similar You'd want green-screen actors and a separate background so that dust effects could be created in front and behind them. The actors should be 'dusted-up' and to sell the effect, there needs to be a wind blowing and things like scarves, bandanas etc. being blown by it - your actors also really need to appear to be struggling against the elements.

As mentioned before - find a VFX super and/or compositor to speak to *before* you plan the shoot - then everything with go much more smoothly afterwards.