ASK & DISCUSS INDEX

6 years, 7 months ago - Marlom Tander

The participants took part so that the audience would understand their story.

I'd go with retaining the MEANING first and try and match style only as far as makes sense. But Meaning doesn't mean literally - you will probably need to decide what you can loose. In the example below I retain roll (for stottie) in the formal version, but swap it for sandwich in the informal one, because, well you just try using the word roll and avoid any possible sexual misunderstanding. Since the essence was "informal snack lunch", "my girlfriend" and "do join us" the type of snack could be altered, a bit.

If docu set in Newcastle you might have to subtitle "Man, I'm ganning doon the toon for a stottie and ta meet wor lass. Ye commin?" (In this it is implied that "Man" knows, and is a friend of, "wor lass".)

Now you could go with "Hello, I'm going to the town centre to pick up a roll for lunch, and to meet my girlfriend, who I know is also your friend. Do you want to come too?"

Or perhaps, "Mate, fancy grabbing a sandwich in town with Helen?"

6 years, 7 months ago - Giulio Gobbetti

Hi Marlom, thank you for your answer. I understand your point - and to be fair I would not have understood a single word in that sentence if you hand't somehow made it accessible to me. So, yes, I agree that when the meaning is so inaccessible, making it understandable is imperative.

Some of the instances we are facing, however, are a bit more nuanced. The meaning is often understandable, and sometimes it's just a different use of grammar. Here are two examples of lines of dialogue from the film:

"Fuck you running going?" as in 'Where the fuck are you running?'
or
"They thought we would have leaved, but I'm staying"

In both cases I think the meaning is quite apparent. And it does feel paternalistic to have subtitles that replace 'leaved' with 'left', as it feels a bit like I am acting as a primary school teacher...

6 years, 7 months ago - Marlom Tander

In that case I'd go for word for word subtitles where possible, but be flexible where word order makes it hard to understand meaning. Your first line, that would need to be something like "Where the fuck you running?", but the second, that's understandable as is.

6 years, 7 months ago - Vinca .

Ciao Giulio,

The point of subtitles (translation not for hard of hearing) is to make the dialogue clear to those who will not understand be it in a foreign language, accent or dialect. I wouldn’t worry about it being patronising, the key concern is that it should be clear. I think it’s better that it’s standardised than you try to retain the ‘patois’ as this will look cringeworthy… like you’re trying to look cool. It doesn’t matter if it’s Caribbean English or Spanish/French/Portuguese creole the translation has to be standardised English. In both the cases you stated your corrections are right. It defeats the object of subtitles writing ‘exactly’ what they said.

Subtitles can be irritating but mainly to those who speak the language being translated… if you see Italian subtitled to English it can often look insane to an Italian speaker but that’s because you’re Italian/understand the language… to the rest of the world it’s just a translation.

Hope this helps.

6 years, 7 months ago - Giulio Gobbetti

Marlom, thank you for your reply.

Vinca, I totally get your point. However, I don't necessarily agree when you say that "writing exactly what they said" defeats the purpose of the subtitles: in this case especially I noticed that people have little problem in understanding the content - what they have difficulty with is deciphering the accent. So even if the subtitles would just transcribe what it has being said, it would make it definitely more accessible.

I usually have no issue with Italian being translated, and I understand that it is unavoidable. But, to put it bluntly, there is no colonial past there to make it offensive for me. To give you an example, when I discussed this issue with some Irish people, they told me they felt rather strongly about it, as British TV tends to subtitle and 'sanitise' Irish accents, which has a very strong meaning for those who come from the other side of the Irish sea.

I am playing a bit the devil's advocate here, mainly for the sake of discussion!

Thanks!

6 years, 5 months ago - Mark Brindle

I did some finishing work and subtitles last year on an Indie UK gangster feature film which had similar issues in terms of slang and some non-English swear words (mostly mixed Punjabi and Jamaican). The director wanted to keep all the slang in place even if it meant losing a bit of the understanding of the sentences. I avoided 'correcting' the English as well to keep it as per the original.

So i basically created subtitles that were accurate to the spoken word. I suppose in time, more people will understand the slang or accented words used. Interestingly the kids cartoon show 'Rasta Mouse' (in both the books and TV show - i have a 6 year old and i have to do all the accents) subtitle in the same way as me for the Jamaican gangster slang. So if it's good enough for Rasta Mouse its good enough for me!

On a practical level most delivery formats allow multiple subtitle streams - so you could actually create 2 different subtitles - so for DVD/Bluray/DCP or Vimeo/Youtube and Netflix you can offer both the (slightly corrected) English and the Caribbean English versions. A distributor who will want to get the English translated to other languages will be happy to use either - i expect most non-English-native-translators would prefer the corrected versions as a translation as a though.

Good luck.