ASK & DISCUSS INDEX

9 years, 7 months ago - Marlom Tander

Seed money is early stage investment in a project.

There is no security. That's why you get equity - you're taking a big risk.

If the project fails to make a profit, you won't see any money.

Re film in particular, the film could make money for all the key people - writer, director, producer - but still fail to return anything to the investors. You'd need to see what contracts existed between the various players and FilmCo. Such arrangements range from the reasonable to caveat emptor to criminal, but unless you can see and assess them, the best approach is to not invest. IMO the film industry specifics are unlikely to be covered by any due diligence liability on Seedrs part.

To me, the fact that you need to ask the question pretty much tells me that you shouldn't be a seed investor in any venture EXCEPT where you personally know the people behind it and trust them to do the right thing.

9 years, 7 months ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin

Hi Gary,

Seedrs.com is a crowd funding company like Kickstarter or indiegogo, the difference being that you are buying fractional shares in the production, so will see an upside if the film does very well. I won't kid you though, the chances are still very slim, but on the plus side you do have a chance and there is a mechanism in place to collect and share any upside. It's certainly gambling, as with any real investment.

There is another way - become a part of an investment aggregator like Ingenious. I don't know how much you have to speculate, they will certainly have a buy-in level, but they very much are at the heart of film investment and know about getting their money back.

I would heed Marlom's words still though - and only ever use money you can afford to lose.

9 years, 7 months ago - Gary Braun

Thank You,Paddy and Marlom,for your explanations
About Seedrs equities.
I will however search for a direct involvement in producing a short film.
All I hope is having fun and not loosing more than I can afford.Have no ambition,anymore,to make money
In this kind of art.
Woodcarving,painting,vitrage ..seems less complicated.

9 years, 7 months ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin

Glad to hear it - by all means it's a great hobby, have a lot of fun with it, and make art! It's just extremely unlikely you will make a profit, so if you let that part go, you can make more of enjoying the creative process :-)

9 years, 7 months ago - ALEXANDRA BOYD

Hey Gary - I have a real life example for you...
I crowdfunded a short film that's also a teaser for a feature I've written. Watch it here - https://vimeo.com/88017642

You don't make money from short films as you know. A couple who invested in that short offered to invest development funding for a (smaller) feature I've written which will be my directorial debut. They were impressed with the outcome of my first project so want to help me go to the next level.
They've never invested in film before but fully understand the risks and can afford to lose the money they've put down (as outlined by other SPs here). Their investment is included in the first line of the budget for the feature and the deal is that they get their money back on first day of principle photography (PP) plus a tiny bit of interest and a small back end if/when the film does well.
I've used the money for further developing the script, shooting a 2 minute teaser, creating the budget, meetings with investors and travel to film festivals, the lawyer who drew up the contract (ouch!) and the day to day operating expenses which add up over the year since they came onboard - NB: short films can come together very quickly, features are another 'slow burn' story...

I have now a great relationship with them. Like you want to be, they are ongoing investors in my 'art'. They watch the process as we add cast, location and crew and have indicated they will invest further in the film's production once our principle actress is signed on. We are close to that.

That investment (£100k for example) falls into the UK Tax incentives (SEIS and EIS) and represents up to only a 50% risk on the money they put down. They are in it for the long haul and, to me, have become very valuable patrons.

If you like a ghost story... check out some of the film I'm talking about here on our Facebook Page https://www.facebook.com/WidowsWalkMovie/?fref=ts

Good luck finding a filmmaker whose art and work ethic you admire and most of all - HAVE FUN!!
Alexandra xx

9 years, 7 months ago - Adam Ethan Crow

No, you don't make money from short film but that film, if it is good becomes a calling card; my short picked up awards and opened doors. I have not received a penny for the actual film, even though it has distribution and can be seen on planes and is these days requested for festivals. But I am now a paid screenwriter with my name on four projects, one with Warner bros, and earn a very good living from this industry and all because a few producers saw something in my short film (19 mins) that allowed them to put their faith in my ability. Indirectly; my short film has given me a career that sees me running between here and LA and hanging with the great an good in the industry. Including Paddy, who chipped in on this post earlier, he is line producing two feature films with me this year.
In closing, I agree with all that has been written, but do not write off short film as a way in - it really can work for getting a toe in the door.

Happy 2016 people!

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9 years, 7 months ago - Gary Braun

Thank you for your kind explanations about seedrs money equities..
For those who have send me project propostions.
Am a retired man and have only 2-3 k £ to invest,
Not more.
Am at a beginning stage of movie making,learning at City Lit and not a mega producer.
Happy New Year.

9 years, 7 months ago - Marlom Tander

Delete invest, insert Spend.

Don't pretend that you are investing with a view to making a return. That way lies losing more than you can afford.

DO decide that you can afford to SPEND X and then look for a project that can be done to that budget. View it has a hobby and you won't overspend.

IMO you should have a think about what you want to support, then post that "cameraman - or whatever your skill set is - with kit seeks partners to produce shorts budget 2-3K. Can invest up to 1K per project, but will expect the rest of the team to match fund at least. Also interested in seeing scripts from writers. Genres I like are comedy, drama, romance, and am not interested in "taking the kids into the woods and chopping them up, or zombies". Projects will generally be zero budget for cast crew, and all the money goes on the screen." and see what happens.

If you did want to make money with 3K I'd be thinking stop motion - find a writer with a great bunch of clay/lego animation ideas, and give the money to a model maker to build some great reusable sets. You get hours of fun shooting, and if it goes popular on Youtube, you get some bunce.

Claymation Minecraft adventures might be fun :-)

9 years, 7 months ago - Gary Braun

Thank you,Marlom.
Will look into studying Animation after I saw different short films on Claymotion.

9 years, 7 months ago - Paul Campion

Animation can be an incredibly solitary experience though, especially stop motion where it's usually just you the animator in a dark room on your own for weeks or months on end. It's also a skill that takes years to learn and master, it's not really something you can sit down and do for the first time and produce something that will sell.

If you want to get a foot in the door and enjoy the process, then investing in a short film as people have suggested above is probably the best way to go. You get to be part of the team, work with experienced people and learn from them and learn about the process of making a film and promoting it. If it's successful then you may get to attend a few festivals (at your own cost) but which is a nice payoff for all the hard work - a bit of red carpet glamour. I've made two successful short films and a low budget feature which have screened at festivals all over the world and I've attended festivals in London, Japan, Germany, Spain and the US, New Zealand and Australia. The films didn't make any money, and I had to pay to travel to all those countries, but it was all worth it, and I'm currently about to make my third short film and attached to direct two more low budget features.

There's a great quote from John Cassavetes about not making money from filmmaking:

"There are many other ways to make money than making movies. If you need to make money, please find some other way to do it. You make movies to lose your money. That is the purpose of making a movie-to put your life into something - not to get something out of it'

9 years, 7 months ago - Marlom Tander

Animation - hard to do properly? Yes. And yes, really needs to be a vocation. I made one little lego movie and the one thing it taught me was that I really hated animation :-)

Long hours alone? Yes, though whether or not that's a pro or a con is down to the person. (I write. You don't get more solitary than that).

But the great thing about Youtube is that it rewards great ideas, even if if execution is less than perfect.

Never under estimate the ego boost from 100,000 views and bunch of "liked it" comments, which is an audience many times any number of festivals.

But yes, at his level he's going to losing money. The decision is what will be the most fun way to do so.

Shorts is an option - 2-3 a year. Community media (my area) ditto, and there that budget allows you to go virtually full time as the main expense is petrol. Animation is another. But don't think they are money making, they can be worthy, arty, socially valuable etc, but won't make money.

happy New Year