ASK & DISCUSS INDEX

12 years, 3 months ago - Dan Keating

Again, thanks for the responses and input. I feel like I have the lay of the land now. The proof of the pudding will be in the casting call.

12 years, 3 months ago - ANDY LEWIS

Option one : paid £150 for 12 hours, spent mostly waiting, and get shown 'out of focus' in the background
Option two : paid DVD and a hd download. No pay but continuously acting for camera, multiple takes you are the lead.
Your choice.
Andy

12 years, 3 months ago - Dan Selakovich

Wow. This really turned into a big production where actors get paid really quickly. As Dan said, this is more a learning experience for him. It seems it might also be a learning experience for the actors as well; hitting a mark, acting for a camera and not the stage, etc.

I don't know about acting unions in the U.K., but all of my films have been SAG here in Los Angeles. Under the low-budget agreement, I can hire for $100 a day. I am also allowed to defer that $100. So if the film makes money, they get that fee. If the film makes a lot of money, they will get normal scale. Perhaps the U.K. has a tiered system like that. If so, it might be a good idea to become a signatory. If the film makes nothing and the fee is deferred, at least we got to know each other for future stuff. I had a few well known character actors in my last thing. They all used their material on their reels (the film is currently unfinished, but I gave them their scenes anyway) which I felt really good about. They had decades of work to pick from, and they used my stuff. And since they've been in the industry for so long, they well know that that is all they may end up with. But I owe them now, and won't forget how they helped me out.

As Paddy and Cath point out, be really honest about what you are trying to do. Any cast and crew can smell bullshit from a mile away. Maybe you should start slow--on the casting bulletins you could advertise for a table read and nothing else. That way you can not only see how your material works, but familiarize yourself with actors--they are a wonderful species. ;) And the actors know that it's only a commitment of a few hours, and they'll get fed. You can ask them about a whole range of things too; like who was your favorite director to work with and why. You can learn a lot about how to direct actors with this simple question.

And finally, PLEASE don't kill people working for free. My longest day on no-budget shorts is 9 hours, and that includes the hour for lunch. Hell, even on professional shoots, my longest day has been 12 hours. You can't imagine how crews light up when you say "wrap" at 5 o'clock. The hard work and happiness you get from day 2 is staggering.

12 years, 3 months ago - cath le couteur

Dan it's a great idea.

The others are right - as long as you are honest about what you are hoping to achieve, you will get really good responses. There are thousands of talented shooter actors, who subscribe to the casting bulletin and I'd encourage you to try this first. So check out under 'Make Film' the get cast/crew functionality. It's totally fine to ask for actors, to work with you on collaborating on the project. And it's a brilliant idea to make a film yourself to better understand writing. Learning from mistakes is probably the best learning you can get! Your honesty is your best card. And those actors who read this, understand your motivation and goals, can see how they might get something from the experience themselves will most certainly respond.
Good Luck.
Best
Cath
SP

12 years, 3 months ago - James Northcote

Hi Dan, exciting that you are going out and getting on with it. Something I need to do more of. Although I generally do agree with Mark Jacobs, as an actor who have worked with less experienced shooters in the past, if the oppurtunity is interesting, the time required is reasonable, and there is a real sense of collaboration then actors are often willing to work for free. For example I just shot a silent comedy on 16mm with a group of shooters and no one was paid but the project was quite a rare oppurtunity to work in that genre and format and we only shot on the weekends so it was a happy set.
Although I know what mark means about educating towards best practice but unless you are looking to set up a ltd company for your production, contract to the hilt and leave the relevant paper trail it's unlikely your first project will be making a profit or generating any income.(Something i've only learnt recently). If you were planning to make money then, sure, not paying your cast and crew would be pretty unreasonable. I just really don't want there to be any unnecessary obstacles in your way to get your work off the ground. As everyone has said as long as you are honest and clear about your intentions when you post to shooting people or CCP then people won't feel misled. I'm also not a big fan of the 'great showreel material' or 'provide stills or headshots' thing. I always decide to do an unpaid project on whether I think the story is compelling, the work will be interesting and the people good to collaborate and work with. It's not about what I tangibly get out of it and I think it's presumptuous to tell someone it'll be good for there showreel when you haven't shot it yet! Good luck. Hit me up if you are looking for anyone specific in early twenties bracket and I can put out some feelers.

James

p.s. one tip is if you are casting try and hire/borrow a room rather than casting from home as some agents/actors will not meet at resedential addresses. There are some pubs that provide free meeting space like the Dog House in Kennington

12 years, 3 months ago - Matt Jamie

i would agree on payment - i've made shorts where I've only paid expenses, but usually with some "payment in kind" in the form of headshots and/or showreel editing. i usually also offer a cut of the actors scenes from the film with the edit favouring them for their reels. I've also done shoots where I've paid a nominal fee (£50 a day) which is not Equity by any stretch, but takes it above just expenses and legitimises it slightly. Of course if you have a cast of 15 and a 7 day shoot that will get expensive, but it's worth considering budgeting for something as ultimately you're making the film for your own education/benefit/exposure/career development, all of which is worth paying for. In terms of where to go, castingcallpro is useful in that you can post a breakdown with the age/location/type you're after and the breakdown will only go to those actors. You then emails from the actors who are interested.
You can also post in the Shooting People casting bulletin of course.

12 years, 3 months ago - James Northcote

Good advice Julian. Hope you are well

12 years, 3 months ago - Angela Peters

Another great site is Casting Networks... They have thousands of actors as well.
I don't tend to use Star Now but agree with Rebecca that Shooting People is wonderful for this type of project.

12 years, 3 months ago - katy vans

If you are paying crew then pay actors as well. If everyone works for free that is another matter. Shooting people and CCP are good places to recruit for low budget. Good luck

12 years, 3 months ago - Bitter Tony

No one who helps out with a project should be out of pocket for their efforts. Expenses must be covered as a minimum. I think the suggestion someone made earlier about giving actors something else (headshots or show reel) is a great idea.

12 years, 3 months ago - Dan Keating

Thanks for the advice. That certainly points me in the right direction. Appreciated.

12 years, 3 months ago - James Northcote

Also, just realised you are based in the SW where I'm originally from. Depends where abouts but have you considered contacting the Engine Room in Bridgewater for acting contacts or SCAT in Taunton to see if any of there performing arts programme would be interested. Also contacting Bristol Old Vic would give you access to some really fantastic actors who might have some weekend time to spare. Sorry about that. I was posting without all the facts!

12 years, 3 months ago - Julian Lamoral-Roberts

You could put a call out for an unrehearsed reading of the script and ask the actors to comment on it. You'll learn a great deal and have the opportunity of re-writing or polishing the script before you shoot.

12 years, 3 months ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin

You can try castingcallpro - be very honest though if it's a first-time production. Many actors are also starting out, and if you're upfront, pay their expenses and guarantee a DVD/bit of showreel/bring a photographer to do some new headshots for people you will likely find sympathetic collaborators.

12 years, 3 months ago - Rebekah Daven Watson

Here on Shooting People, via local drama schools perhaps, Talent Circle and Mandy.com. But as Paddy above says, be honest with the details of the production. Good luck!

12 years, 3 months ago - Mark Jacobs

My views on payment are that you should pay your actors. Increasingly actors are taking a stand on this, for too long all they have been promised are expenses, we are all in this together and creating a sustainable film industry is what we are all about. That means turning around this notion that its ok not to pay fellow trained cast and crew who have given up their time and skills to help, typically what is one person's vision.
Its also not fair to compete with other companies who do raise funds and pay cast and crew. At the end of the day you are creating a product that audiences pay to see, we really shouldn't dupe them into thinking that it was made with paid cast and crew when it wasn't.
Even bananas are fair trade.

Join a trade association, learn about contracts and educate yourself, part of the issue within the indie world is this lack of knowledge and acceptance of laissez faire rather than a drive toward education and best practice.

Equity has won two recent employment cases against film schools and one against a theatre company and are looking for more. In all three cases the employers stuck to the defence that it was collaborative and no payment was promised, in all three cases it was found that work was being done and the cast had to be paid. As a result of these successes actors are strengthening their position.

I'd recommend you pay your actors, create a sustainable company, that way we can all survive longer in this business. Equity offer a low budget film contract, talk to them.

Not a slap just a nudge in the right direction.