ASK & DISCUSS INDEX

10 years, 3 months ago - Andrew Morgan

All good ideas although Nick - I think you're underselling us next to what Wozy and Marlom have in mind - solidarity brothers! (and sisters! :)

10 years, 2 months ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin

Passion is something you can buy ;-) Alas, most of the reality of getting a film made is trade roles - not 'creative' ones.

This makes it very hard for them to get excited about doing the day job for less/no pay. Nobody ever watched a film and said 'ooh, I loved what the boom swinger/best boy grip/generator operator/caterer/dresser/line producer/second AD/DIT/(etc.) did there'. Nor should they, almost all film roles go towards creating an illusion.

They fawn over the acting, mise en scene, lighting mostly. A more sophisticated audience will appreciate things like the sound design, costume, and edit because they know to look for it, but that's a tiny percentage of an audience. Trade audiences might notice their own discipline to a degree, but in percentage terms, that's approaching zero.

So how do you incentivise sometime who does the same job for money day in, day out to give up their free time/turn down other jobs for you? They know the real value of a credit on a short (pretty much nil below the line), they won't be excited about the script and probably will not even read it thoroughly, they won't be excited to work with soap actors if they've been doing Bond the week before... This is where money comes in.

If you really want someone on the top of their game below the line turn up with cash. They may, of course, do a freebie - we all do from time to time, but rarely for a stranger asking for the world and offering nothing in return. It doesn't even need to be huge money to show willing, but it needs to be better than nickel and diming their tube fare expenses! It shows willing and really makes a big difference in how you'll be perceived.

If someone gives their time completely freely, their time and work isn't valued. Even fairly nominal money focuses minds all round. It's professional. Or, of course, don't offer any money on the basis that it's an amateur production - that's absolutely fine! But you don't get to be too picky or throw your weight around!

As ever, just my 2p

10 years, 3 months ago - Lee 'Wozy' Warren

I would go back and say - "My expenses are £200" or whatever you decide is reasonable. If your experience in the given genre is enough, the producer will hopefully see the benefits of giving you the job over that of someone willing to do it for nothing, but brings no experience to the table.

This particular poster is obviously looking for someone with experience as he/she has only been able to bring it to a certain level themselves. So one would assume that it's experience they are seeking.

Personally, I think that writers should/must take a stand and say No! to free scripts. I wont write for free and I dont expect to buy/procure one for free. If enough writers do this, the expenses moniker will become the 'fee'.

But don't forget that a lot of SP posters will be newbies breaking in with their first or early filmmaking efforts and wont yet see the value in a professionally written script. This is part of their learning curve and will 'hopefully' be realised at some early point when they look at their work and realise that the camera work is great, the direction is great, the acting is great, the art is great, the sound is great etc etc... - but the script stinks!

"Everything starts with a great script..." Wozy

Wozy

10 years, 2 months ago - Andrew Morgan

Hmm... I'm thinking of making this a regular thing - another expenses-only job that rankles me here:

"Details of training and experience. Examples of previous work in short film and or video. An interest in comedy. A good sense of humour. It would be good to see examples of comedy films or videos and or films with good timing and pace to create tension. A commitment to editing the best possible version of the film and seeing this project through to the end. There is flexibility for this project to be done around other commitments."

If you've got someone editing for you *for free* you should be extremely grateful if you get a finished, screenable product - asking for a "commitment to editing the best possible version of the film and seeing this project through to the end" is fine - if you're *paying*.

10 years, 2 months ago - Dan Selakovich

Thanks for that, Paddy! Not too long ago I edited a short for a friend, because I liked the script and I like the friend. But he got a beginning director. I had a cut everyone was happy with after 4 days of relaxed cutting. Everyone but the director. Fast forward 3 weeks later of working with the director: back to my first cut with one small change. I feel like I wasted a month, but I agreed to do it.

If you're "hiring" established professionals, the only reason they work for free is creative freedom. I went from editor to teacher. I don't want to teach unless I'm being paid.

10 years, 2 months ago - Andrew Morgan

Exactly! I know everyone wants their film to be perfect and they also want everyone that works on it to share their passion and dedication *but* if is that exacting and crucial to your production then I dunno, perhaps you should've uh, *budgeted* for it?

10 years, 3 months ago - Lee 'Wozy' Warren

Marlom - I have this idea for a post war spy story that could work in all those locations... :)

10 years, 3 months ago - Nick Hilton

In my opinion, 'Expenses' jobs should set a per diem of £10-£20 for cast and crew, regardless of travel. And then cover reasonable travel expenses on top of that, rather than out of that per diem. Otherwise writers (and other 'from home' workers) can so easily get screwed, cos what can we bill for? Cups of coffee? Office space?

10 years, 3 months ago - Dan Selakovich

I have kind of a different view of this. If I had just graduated from a university, I might just do this for free, depending on the state of the existing script. And I'd do it for this reason: to see how my work is interpreted. I think that might be worth a couple of weeks work on a short. (IF a feature: no fucking way).

In the early days of the Sundance Institute, a writer would work with a professional writer from the industry honing their script for a week. In the 2nd week, they would shoot a scene from that script several times. They would switch out (well established, big time) directors or DPs or actors or editors and reshoot the scene over and over again, replacing one or more of those positions. It was invaluable for the writer to see how each version was interpreted by each creative professional, and made them a better writer in the end.

10 years, 2 months ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin

I'm inclined to believe you'll get what you pay for, and if you're not paying, your don't get to call the shots ;)

10 years, 3 months ago - Marlom Tander

I find that my scripts require a lot of location research. If you can only afford my expenses expenses, I have a whole bunch of ideas set in the Bahamas, Monaco, Iceland and New Zealand :-)