ASK & DISCUSS INDEX

10 years, 3 months ago - Dan Selakovich

"Sign offs" is a fucking great idea.

10 years, 3 months ago - Jinan C

Thanks for your feedback, that was very useful. Yes it does seem to be an upside down way of doing things. I will draw up the budget and present it to them. I am, however, being hired (and I work) as a filmmaker/director - I am not really willing to simply be a shooter (no harm in that) but they are not experienced as film commissioners, so surely there should be an understanding that while they have input and give me an idea of the general brief, I'm allowed to do my job and come up with a strong storyboard and film?

10 years, 3 months ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin

PS, to make that budget, you need to include some constraints and checkpoints and signoffs as you go. If you 'go dark' and emerge with a film that misses a major point, you've got a lot of rework to do. If instead you have signoff at the script stage, signed-off mood boards, signed-off music, etc in advance then you've got a lot less to go wrong. I'd suggest part of your constraints will be to limit the number of revisions in the edit, otherwise you end up with an all-you-can-eat film buffet ;-)

10 years, 3 months ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin

Scenario 1 makes no sense - maing a film out of leftovers of costs and values if you've been commissioned... Instead -

1) Budget the direct cost of making the film
2) Budget your fee
3) Tell the commissioner
4) Whatever they do after that is up to them, they own the film outright. The commissioner takes their fee, the artist takes the balance (for instance)

10 years, 3 months ago - Dan Selakovich

Listen to Paddy. They need to see a budget so that they know what they're getting into, and that can help clarify things in their own minds.

In the end, you're a work for hire and it's their money. Part of the art of filmmaking in these situations is to take bad notes and make good film out of them. It's really important not to get defensive, especially early on. Working with inexperienced people in charge is a real challenge, and is probably going to be a nightmare. But now that you know that, you can remain the cool head they need. The best editor I ever met was going into the foreign diplomatic core upon graduation from University, then he discovered film. In other words, he was a trained diplomat. I couldn't think of a better education for a filmmaker.

10 years, 3 months ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin

Alternatively suggests a cost-plus basis if the magazine want creative control. You charge your flat/hourly fee, you provide receipts for repayment, you add a 10% profit overall. Then the magazine can change anything they like, but costs go up and you're just a shooter for hire.

10 years, 3 months ago - Marlom Tander

On Paddy's point, the more they sign off on as you go, when they decide that want it all done different, your sign offs are evidence that :-

1) Gives you the ammo to insist on getting paid.
2) Allows you to say "sure, but that will need X more money, for the following reasons".

Enjoy

10 years, 3 months ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin

Budgeting 101

Before you can quote for a job, you need to know your costs. If you quote below your costs, you're subsidising someone else's benefit.

Start with hard costs - stuff you shell out for in cash to complete the job - renting a high-speed camera, fuel to site, anyone you have to employ, meals you will have to eat out, stock, consumables, etc. Direct hard costs. Nothing you do can change these costs. They will depend on a load of assumptions (number of shooting day, distances, a particular narrative style, etc) and these are ESSENTIAL to establish upfront.

Now look at your fee - is $350/day reasonable in your market including any kit you include? Is it reasonable for 1 day, for a whole week, for a full month, etc? Remember we're talking costs, not the quote yet. What would you take if the job is longer, if you want to do it, etc? $1000/week? Be frank with yourself. What would an editor charge? Is it less or more than your 'take' rate?

Now you know what it'll cost you to make the film. That's not what you quote of course - you just know what the very lowest figure you can bear would be. How much profit do you want to make? Add that on, and you have a basic quote based on assumptions that MUST be a part of the quote. Any changes cost more - and that is essential to know so you can decide whether to swallow them from profit, or recharge (but potentially irritate the client).

You could instead offer an open book 'costs plus' quote - in this case you list every element at market rate, provide receipt copies if needs be, bill for your time, your editors time, etc., then you add a fixed profit margin on top (say 10%). Clients don't often like this as it means they have to pay for their changed choices and indecision, but if your client is happy to butt out and accept what you produce, you'll have budgeted accurately.

Ultimately, what you need to know is what it will cost you so you can decide whether a negotiated deal is going to make or lose you money. As for day rates/fixed deals for several episodes, etc - that depends on if you're opening the books or giving a fixed-price quote with constraints (to prevent the inevitable all-you-can-eat film buffet).

10 years, 3 months ago - Jinan C

Hello all,

I wonder if I could ask one more question related to the above:

The head of the magazine just wrote to ask me to send over a quote for my fees for "directing/producing/editing etc" for a 20 minute film, so they can compare (I guess check their own budget and check my quote against their expected return from the sale of the works? It's not clear to me yet how they plan to finance everything, but it's not really my issue I guess.

My question is, should I offer two proposals along the lines of:

1) If budgeting (for the time being) for a single 20 minute film alone, I would usually charge i.e. $350 a day for my own fee as combined director/producer (I have yet to decide whether to edit myself or hire someone - given where I live, and the dominance of TVC editors, I'm tempted to do it myself, in which case that would still be a separate editor's fee that I'd allocate for?).

2) If budgeting for the whole series from now (i.e. five or six 20 minute films), I would waive my day rate and agree on a flat rate per film (though I have yet to work out what would be fair - all advice welcome!). Or should I still charge my day rate despite the fact that it will rack up a lot more? I don't want to lose the job by going beyond their means, but I of course want to pay myself appropriately for all the work I'm likely to be doing (especially if doubling up on roles).

Am I going about this the right way? Thanks in advance

10 years, 3 months ago - Mät King

It seems that the magazine don't want to pay for anything, but want to leverage control and finance should they convince the artists to part with their money. Of course, once the idea is raised with the artists and any are willing to part with money they could commission their own film and retain the commercial rights.
And of course there is the question on who has final sign off on these films should they happen, and the legal issues regarding licensing the footage of "works of arts", which may be subject to copyright/ownership issues.
Always remember the second mouse gets the cheese...

10 years, 3 months ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin

Here's how it goes in real life - the person with the money gets to say what goes. Your job is to hear what they want, and either supply it (to get paid and get the next job) or convince them that what they want is to trust you (and get paid, and get the next job).

Knowing they'll want some creative control is a management thing - you manage the situation. You let them make creative choices about peripheral elements whilst listening earnestly (and making the big creative decisions). A friend was managing the build of an arts centre - nobody wanted responsibility for major things like gallery space division - but they argued for weeks over plumbing fittings and toilet paint colour. You throw the commissioner some decisions about fonts etc., and really 'appreciate her creative input on this collabration'. We're in showbiz, that means sprinkling a bit of stardust to make the execs feel special.

10 years, 2 months ago - Jinan C

Thanks a lot Paddy, that was really helpful!