ASK & DISCUSS INDEX

7 years, 5 months ago - Marlom Tander

What do you want them to do?

FWIW it would be very difficult legally for BAFTA to name him, or seek out other victims, without opening themselves up to legal action. People sue organisations with money way more than they sue private people with none.

It would be very difficult for them to even talk to him on the basis of one allegation, even if they thought they had someone of the right expertise to do so and with time on their hands.

If you want him stopped, YOU need to seek out other actresses and show that it's a pattern, then you can go public and only if he's stupid and rich will he even think of suing. THEN you can ask BAFTA etc to avoid him , or whatever you want to happen.

7 years, 5 months ago - Alève Mine

I had asked them to remove him from their list of members. That's all. I don't have any desire to sue anyone: it takes energy in a negative direction.
So here is a key question: why would taking measures have deeds offending more than one person as a prerequisite? Isn't one enough?
I was careful not to disclose the name of the agent publicly. Either way: how could I search for others with the same experience with the same guy while keeping his name sealed? Not to mention: without widely labeling a whole bunch of people, including me, as "victims"? This labeling does more harm than people seem to think.
They must have a unit responsible for dealing with such things. Under no circumstances can they "not have the time".

7 years, 5 months ago - Marlom Tander

Look at it from the POV of BAFTA.

They have had an unsubstantiated allegation against a member, asking that said member be kicked out.

Let's say they decide to investigate. What would that entail? BAFTA is a small organisation (look at their staff list) and is unlikely to be able to conduct investigations. Best they could manage is to call the guy and say "did you do it?". He says "No" and it's "he said, she said", which, from a management POV, is a mess. One of you is lying, and BAFTA can't know who.

Say they then do remove him. His reaction is simple - he sues BAFTA for damaging his reputation - being kicked out of BAFTA is smoke that implies fire, implies he did something wrong. His claim is based on the fact that no decent evidence was supplied and no proper investigation was conducted. BAFTA loses.

If you are running an organisation like BAFTA and you want to remove someone for this sort of activity and NOT have them sue you need a body of evidence such that a reasonable person would consider his removal valid and his lawyer will say "go quietly". One accusatory letter is not enough. And rightly so.

Sad fact is, in this sort of thing, the rule of thumb is "one person might lie, two people might be in cahoots, three people is a pattern of behavior".

You could disclose the agents name. You have no duty of care, and if he chooses to sue you, you get your day in court. But it's unlikely he will sue you as if he wins, it still costs him a lot of money (I'm guessing you are not rich). His lawyer will also advise against him suing you because "no court case" is a public scrap that passes soon enough, but "court case" could be a media frenzy that will damage his business.

Personally I think BAFTA should have written back with something like "it's hard for us to take action on the basis of the information provided. We will keep your report and if other people make similar reports we will take things further". Blanking you was just wrong.

7 years, 5 months ago - Alève Mine

Thanks. You have successfully characterized the process by which harassment will be merrily perpetuated. Unless BAFTA has all their members sign that in a case like this they will revoke membership, without any more hassle for the harrassed. Or, use lie detectors if they are any good.
As things are today, defending oneself adds insult to injury for the harrassed.

7 years, 5 months ago - Marlom Tander

So you want BAFTA to include a membership clause that states that treats all allegations as true and expels accordingly? That leads to injustice on the other side. Someone goes to an audition. They don't get the part. Feeling that they have been badly treated, they write to BAFTA with a #metoo allegation, and BAFTA have to expel the innocent party.

Some years back I witnessed a serious physical assault outside my house. Actually about 20 people did, but only two of us were prepared to remember it and identify the attacker. He and his friends knew where we lived. For two months he was out on bail having pleaded not guilty, while we were threatened multiple times and had bricks through our windows, (no, no compensation, or additional charges. No proof you see). Everyone else thought we were crazy to risk going up against the thugs, after all, we hadn't been attacked, it was just some random immigrant, not "one of us". But you know what, every threat, and those bricks, just made me more angry and more determined than ever to stand witness. Only when he saw us turn up in court did he change his plea to guilty. The other witness was even braver - they had a family and children, and they were told that things would happen to them if they testified.

I would much preferred to have given a statement that kept my name out of it, and to have been believed without question, but that way lies miscarriages of justice. Because Aleve, unlike you and I, some people lie. And if organisations acted on a single allegation on the assumption that all allegations are true, you'd just be swapping one form of injustice for another.

As to the "victims" thing. Don't accept it. And really, if someone won't work with you because they perceive you as a victim, or "difficult" do you want to work with them? One of my great grandmothers was a very "difficult" woman, and thanks to women like her, my sister can vote. (No she didn't get force fed or put in prison, but she was prepared to be).

7 years, 5 months ago - Alève Mine

I don't know what to respond to this.

7 years, 3 months ago - Garry Clarkson

Make the allegation to the police. If a law has been broken then they will investigate. If its covered by the 1997 protection from Harassment Act then they will take action. If there is no evidence but hearsay or conjecture then it quite rightly will be ignored. Get on with filmmaking instead of unsupported . allegations - unless of course you have the money to fight a defamation law suit. Not sure what you expect BAFTA to do simply based on metoo allegation? Remember for every allegation there is also a false allegation which can result in the 'accused' killing themselves. Be aware of your responsibility.

7 years, 3 months ago - Helen Jack

Hi Alève,

I rarely respond to members threads but felt compelled to do so in this case.

Firstly, I'm so sorry you had this experience with this person. It must have been really tough. And, I believe you. As Garry says, I would think the best way to deal with this is to go to the police and/or get legal advice on what your options are. Perhaps look into which lawyers are already working on similar cases, and they might work consider working pro bono. I suspect there's little BAFTA can do at this stage, so it may not be the most effective route to take right now.

I disagree with Garry that for every allegation there is a false allegation. False claims around sexual abuse (not that you are, , I should add, claiming this) is around the same as most false criminal claims (around 3%), suggesting that the vast majority of claims are true. Your only responsibility is to do what is right for you.

Good luck with it, Alève.

Helen

7 years, 3 months ago - Lee 'Wozy' Warren

Sorry to hear this has happened to you. Take legal advice. They will help you decide the best course of action. If the police need to be involved, the solicitor will advise. They can even attend the police station with you.

I don't think publicly raising this will help move it forward. Protect yourself with all the available information from a legal point of view and know your options.

Good luck.

Wozy

7 years, 3 months ago - John Lubran

Where the only evidence is one persons word against another's it's difficult for Judicial clarity to be achieved. Occasionally a jury will come to a verdict despite the lack of impirical evidence where overwhelming circumstantial evidence is very compelling, but even here the appeal courts might overturn that judgement.

When we look at the current high profile cases that are achieving traction they all share one thing; lots of women coming forwards against the same perpetrator with 'me too'. Whilst the procecuters may shrink at pursuing a case where there's no empirical evidence they are confident of winning when several women declare their own similar experiences with same person .

If you really do want to nail this creep Aleve try to find others who will have had similar experiences with him. If he's abused you it's almost certain that he will have abused others too. Three or more of you will be very empowering.

7 years, 2 months ago - Angela Peters

Hi Alève,

I see that this thread is coming back to life from 3 months ago. I am hoping you were able to get something done since you last posted. What an awful situation.

But if you haven't, are you an Equity member and have you contacted them? They've been great with offering public support on highlighting #metoo issues (as have WFTV), and I'm sure they will have suggestions on how to proceed accordingly. If the person's name has been mentioned more than once to them, I am sure your information will also help (even if they may not be able to share that information with you). Good luck, and I'm sorry you've experienced this.

Best
Angela

7 years, 2 months ago - Helen Jack

Great advice, Angela. Yes, Alève, you should reach out to WFTV (https://wftv.org.uk/). They'll definitely be able to offer some advice.

7 years, 2 months ago - Moritz Valero

Hi Aleve,

I think you should reach out to Equity. They recently employed someone to create safe working spaces for actors, directors and producers as well as other people in the industry.

They have a specific Harassment Helpline:
02076700268
Maybe they can give you advice what your next steps could be.

However, like written above, it might be hard to get BAFTA to kick him out without the evidence (which doesn't make it right).

If someone does something as horrible and disgusting to you as he did to you, It is important to come forward. Otherwise they would get away with it, think that their actions are ok and then do it to someone else again.
Thank you for having the strength to come forward on here.
Should you have more question for me then please do let me know and I will do my best to help out.

I know that these situations can be mentally straining. Should you ever feel the need to talk to someone because you feel unwell then you can call the Samaritans hotline anytime. They are available 24/7.
116 123

Best,
Moritz

7 years, 2 months ago - Alève Mine

Thank you all. When (and if ever) I feel ready, I may contact Equity and wftv.org.uk - that seems like all I can do, because the process of finding other affected people involves spreading his name, which I don't want to do, and looking for free attorney advice, well, I've done that so much until now for my music work that it started not feeling good. Special thanks for these specific contact options. Links and phone numbers are concrete things. Today I don't have the type of energy it takes to go after these, but maybe in the future.

What I think is that if gatekeepers use the realisation of such desires as a criterion to let people in instead of say quality of work, the resulting quality of the body of work that relates to any organisation in question will suffer.

- Moritz, what do the numbers 116 123 stand for?

7 years, 2 months ago - Alève Mine

Helen, special thanks for the 3% information. It may help.

7 years, 2 months ago - Mark Owen

Hi Aleve,
Sorry to have read this and sorry that you have experienced a lot of negative stuff in the industry.
If you ever feel like you would like to, I am spearheading a series of interviews focusing on anti-sexism, sexual exploitation and degradation, primarily in film, but other sectors too. You can talk about your experience(s) and/or your opinion on the industry, however much or little you see fit. No pressure at all, but we are finding more and more women are coming forward to us to ask for an opportunity to have their say. www.whyshouldiproject.com. Please let me know if you would like to speak out. Best, Mark

7 years, 2 months ago - Alève Mine

Mark, thanks, but as mentioned earlier I see that it may strengthen the wrong end of the subject.

7 years ago - Mark Owen

No problem Aleve. Hope you find a suitable outcome.
Best,
Mark

7 years ago - Alève Mine

Thanks.