ASK & DISCUSS INDEX

8 years, 5 months ago - Marlom Tander

Contact all the film offices in local councils offering to shoot for free if they can get the permissions. They get promo content, you get promo content, but you also get to define the shoots to really show off your skills.

I'm thinking drifting up cathedral exteriors, early morning low altitude down city streets, skimming a canal, all the stuff that is normally impossible to get done by anyone other than Hollywood.

8 years, 5 months ago - Christopher Drury

Telford and Wrekin council said no, Shropshire Parks is a no, Shropshire Forestry is a no. I've contacted them all, at this time, unless I pay a fee to film on their land, they have all said no. So as it stands, the council route isn't a good one.

8 years, 5 months ago - Lee 'Wozy' Warren

I dabbled in this last year, gaining my license as well. But went back to what I know best due to all the restrictions and the "no's" I was getting. I also had a lot of directors asking me to do stuff that always completely failed on the risk assessments.

But I wish you luck and hope that you find an angle to hitch on to.

8 years, 5 months ago - Christopher Drury

Thanks for the reply. This isn't a 'quick fix' type of career for me, i can play the long game. After investing in some serious kit and my course, I just need to build some credits and portfolio. I don't intend on hanging around though, I won't work for free for very long (in most cases). With My background in film and tv i'd like to stay working in this area, but I have been offered a contract to 3D Map a power plant, which I will do, but it's not my goal, so I was hoping to pick up some work on short movies or such on Shooting People, working on low budget productions but with talented likeminded individuals.

8 years, 5 months ago - John Lubran

Hang in there Chris. Consistence, persistence and reputation achieve the critical mass that can lead to success. Build up your show reel with as you've planned. We're over the border in Powys and might need sky cam from time to time. Please link me at mv@movingvision.co.uk so I have you on the system.

8 years, 5 months ago - Marlom Tander

Chris. Did you contact the councils asking permission to film, or did you identify and contact the person in the council who is responsible for bringing film productions (or, thinking about it, tourism as well) to the area, and have a conversation about how some great footage - which you can provide for free - would help them promote themselves to the film and tourism industries and bring money to the area.

Also, I'm not up to speed on the rules, but if you area away from people I think it's relatively free to fly drones? Can you play in the mountains? Everything you can pull around a building you can do with cliffs and crags. And walkers and climbers....

If you fancied an excuse to go to Iceland it's probably one of the most amazing places to shoot. I spent two months there some years back. http://icelandmag.visir.is/article/does-iceland-have-any-restrictions-or-laws-regarding-use-drones-do-aerial-photography

I think in Scotland the freedoms on wild ground are wider than in than in England/Wales.

8 years, 5 months ago - Christopher Drury

John Lubran: Thank you for the kind words. I plan on shooting on in Scotland over the coming weeks, and when I have a basic show reel in place i'll post it here.

Marlom Tander: The problem with flying drones, is that as soon as you have your CAA licence you are bound by the laws (As per the CAA rules (CAP393) and not adhering to those laws invalidates my insurance), that means I need the land owners permission to take off and land an SUAS, and the remit for that doesn't fall within the councils filming department as effectively I am asking to launch an aircraft from public land. What I have found is that everyone I have spoken with doesn't know how to answer me and just says 'no' as it's an easy option, unless I pay, inform the police, and do a full production plan, which when I can film for free at some locations, it isn't worth my while. It is worth pointing out however, that hobbyists are flying in my local parks with no issues, but they won't have that all important 'Land owners permission' and most likely will not be insured like I am.

There are areas I can fly (Snowdon, Windemere or even some London Parks for example) , but that isn't what I am wanting to achieve here, I am wanting to gain filming credits that I can use to add to the marketability of my business. Flying around a park, or around a mountain is easy, but to plan a shoot with actors, set, pyrotechnics, vehicles, lighting and other such crew is an all together more involved processes that sets apart the hobbyist to the professional. (just in case you are wondering, the 25mm (50mm after conversion) is a brilliant mid to close up lens with f1.8, nice and fast. I can be 35 meters from the action yet fill the frame with the size of one car. The 12mm (25mm) lens of more for the sweeping, vista shoots).

As for Iceland, it is firmly on my radar. I would love to go there to get some stock footage, but not until my business is making money.

I have a business plan, and Shooting People isn't part of that plan. So why ask for help? I ask for two reasons, firstly, If I do gain some unpaid work it will speed up my overall business plan, and secondly, even when I am making good money from all of this, I will not be adverse to doing the odd freebee for student films and low / no pay productions, as I understand how hard it can be when starting out.

Thanks all for your comments.

Regards

Chris

8 years, 5 months ago - Christopher Drury

By the way, I have recently filmed in Snowdon, really lovely place to film. I plan on filming on the Welsh coast and Scottish Highlands later this month. This will only give me a basic show reel, and as soon as this is edited and ready to go, I will post here for all to see. I have filmed with the DJI Inspire X3 camera and a GoPro on a Phantom, but that footage isn't any where near the quality you get from the X5r camera, so hence the reason why I am shooting new footage.

Many thanks

8 years, 5 months ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin

One challenge you may hit, Chris, is that the market is getting pretty saturated and I know several people who have their drone licenses and have exited the market as there's just so much competition. And as the quality of hobbyist rigs gets better and cheaper every year, they're snapping at your heels for all but a proper feature production.

Worse still, they're now in the domain of wedding videography, meaning the exclusive look of aerial filming is diluted. Once it was a statement that you could afford a helicopter at £5k, then that you could afford a professional done for £2k, then £1500/day, then I doubt I'd struggle to find a licensed owner operator for a grand a day now. It's no longer considered special or unusual, it's everywhere on YouTube. Admittedly the quality varies somewhat ;-)

I'd look at building a B-roll library where you can - given a choice between hiring a drone for a shot or buying quality B-roll, it's B-roll all the way. Look for unusual shots, stuff the hobbyists cannot get. On YouTube i was recently impressed with a guy (JeffHK) who is a ships engineer on big cargo ships, he's used his small drone to get some wonderful at sea footage of his ship, and used it inside empty storage areas to show off the scale of the thing. Maybe there's something similar you can find to become the go-to guy for?

8 years, 5 months ago - Christopher Drury

I understand, plus hobbyists are touting themselves for commercial work is just illegal, but it still happens.

I own the Inspire RAW which is £6K alone (Basic kit) and shoots 4K RAW, something that other drone camera just don't offer, and at a bit rate of 2.4Gbps it is broadcast quality. I also have two controllers, one for me, the pilot, and another for a camera man. Couple that up with each SSD card is £800, each battery is £200 for 15 mins of flight. The gear I have is top line, and not like the £1000 kit you are comparing my kit to. I've spent over £10k so far. So you are comparing the likes of a Canon 650D to an Epic Red Raven (a good comparison), yes if what you are looking for is the quality of a Canon 650D then go ahead, but i'm not competing against that, and don't want to.

8 years, 5 months ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin

Hiya, don't worry I'm not comparing your kit to a £1000 hobbyist kit - I know the difference between a 7kg load pro hexcopter and a consumer model :) I've no doubt that your rig will shoot far higher quality and so there's a market for funded features, but the bottom end is falling away rapidly - each generation is getting more and more impressive - and that puts a squeeze on the higher end which is the sector you're establishing in!

8 years, 5 months ago - John Lubran

Paddy's absolutely right about over subscription. But it's not only sky cam that's affected. The film and TV industry as a whole is hugely over subscribed in every department. Everyone, their uncle, thier uncles kids and even the dog wants to get into it. Students are annually adding exponentially to the numbers along with lots of self starters. On top of that is the profound affect of Moors Law, by which the tools we use get twice as good at half the price every eighteen months. So whilst skill and track record are always of the highest value, having a brilliantly creative business plan is too. Apart from within the inertia of gargantuism that keeps the major players rolling, for now, multitasking skills at a good standard all round will be the prerequisites of the future.

8 years, 5 months ago - John Lubran

Oh another thing. The nation is divided into controlled and uncontrolled air space. Much of Mid and North Wales is uncontrolled, just have to watch out for unexpected fast jets practicing dog fights and bomb runs!

8 years, 5 months ago - Mät King

Just keep working, building contacts, and look at the long game. If the work is something you want to do, find a way. Please ignore all naysayers unless you're looking for justifications for choices you may make. There are always a thousand reasons and excuses not to do something it's pretty easy to find one to make you do something. Good luck.

8 years, 5 months ago - Christopher Drury

Fully aware of the military in our country, I served 8 years in the armed forces during the Gulf war and Bosnia where I operated remote cameras for surveillance and intelligence gathering. I have a degree and masters degree in the performing arts and film, so know how hard it is to get established. It seems to me that people on here are getting the wrong end of what I am asking. I am not looking for advice, and quiet frankly telling me I can't do it is just being rude and not helpful. I was offering my services for free for a couple of projects in return of filming credits, but people on here seem more interested in slamming someone 'trying' to get established.

If Shooting People has turned in to a place for mediocrity shooting down the little man, then you can keep it. I thought (as it was many years ago when I first joined) that this was a platform to discuss, nurture and develop talent, but I can clearly see it now is not.

John: The debate is not really over controlled or uncontrolled airspace as the vast majority of UK airspace is Class G, however drones under 7Kg can take off and land in any class of airspace so long as you follow the law. The debate is over permissions to take off and land, and also the policing of the laws (CAP393, CAP 722) all of which seems to have escaped you in your generalisation of what a drone operator actually does. The fact that to gain my licence I had to produce a document of 20'000 words, sit 3 written exams and then conduct a 2 hour practical test also seems to have escaped you. At this time only 2497 people have been given permission to fly drones (all categories combined) in this country, with a large amount of those coming from Police, Emergency services, Educational, Technical development, Military, Construction and photography I can hardly see how the industry is all of a sudden 'flooded' with drone pilots, unless they are operating illegally. But if you would like to break the law by hiring an unqualified pilot then be my guest as you can face very large fines and potentially prison for even using such footage.

I guess doing things the right way on here, when dealing with 'cowboys' isn't the right platform in which to offer genuine services.

8 years, 5 months ago - REHANA ROSE

Hello Chris

Many thanks for your offer of helping others in order to help yourself, sounds like a win win situation - I am currently in production on a feature documentary and would like to discuss working with you - I will email you directly later today...

Thanks

Rehana

8 years, 5 months ago - John Lubran

Chris, apologies if you thought I was trying to put you off. Just re-read what I posted and can't see how that can be construed. I fact I was anticipating working with you.

I don't think it's true that Shooting People members are particularly negative or overly positive. The core group of members who are experienced across the whole spectrum of film making activities enjoy being helpful and we are very much more commended for that than we are for being negative. It's true however that there's been a few postings that have been deemed by that group as being absurd and that carry an underlying sense of caution. However I don't think this has applied to your post. I'm not the only one who has actually encouraged you? I think it's been a fair comment though to comment upon the business challenges we all face in the fragmenting and budget stretching market.

I've no idea as to whether or not two and a half thousand licenced drone pilots represents a shortage or a glut. What I do know is that I have several on my files who have contacted me. Geographically we're relatively near to each other which struck a cord with me.

It must be worth concidering that some of the members here report a noticeable increase in the availability of drone pilots, including from other drone pilots themselves. As I suggested above, this exponential increase in entrants across every job description in this industry affects everyone. It's no longer just a choice between cheap or good, there's now also the option of cheap AND good. There's always work for the very best. Having a specially compelling USP can often make the difference between struggling and thriving. Finding ways in which to create ones own market through lateral thinking in business modeling can cut a lot of corners from that journey. As you've been making films from both a technical and creative percpective I imagine that you've already ticked that invaluable multitasking box. People who are liked by other people whilst doing a good job always do better. It can be a stressful and risky business and prima donna's ought to be always lovely, or very effective, I imagine with most producers below the rank of mogul.

I appreciate the fact that drones can fly within specific parameters in or out of controlled air space, however I understand that those parameters are greater in uncontrolled air space? Not that it matters for most productions.

Anyway, as I said before, hang in there Chris and build your dream but keep your options open to radical ideas.

8 years, 5 months ago - Ira Giorgetti

I'd be happy to have you shoot with the production company I am setting up on some of our more cinematic projects if you'd be interested!

8 years, 5 months ago - Christopher Drury

Ira; I would very interested, thanks. Send me a direct message or email me chris@pro-motion.ltd to discuss the project more please.

My website is now up www.professionalmotion.co.uk and over the next two weeks I will be putting together a basic showreel which I will post here when finished.

John; I appreciate feedback and positivity, but the entire reason why I posted this thread just got lost somewhere in translation. I am wanting to gain some filming credits for my business, and at this early stage of my business I am offering my services out for free for a limited time (a bit of you scratch my back and I scratch yours so to speak). I hold no place for negativity. When I was teaching Drama at Rotherham College I would encourage my students to aim for the moon, and if they miss they can still hit the stars. Aim big, work hard, be kind to all, and enjoy what you do.