ASK & DISCUSS INDEX

8 years, 5 months ago - Rakesh Malik

It sounds like you answered your own question already; you're not confident that you can work with the first one, and the 2nd isn't worth considering unless you're looking for a gear dongle.

If you're looking to make a film for the sake of gaining experience making films, then these two might be worth considering, but if you're looking to make something good, then you should move on and look for a cinematographer. Maybe a recent graduate, provided that they went to a school that explains the things that a DP is supposed to do.

You need to be sure that the DP that you choose can:

1) Work with you
2) design shots + lighting around visual storytelling
3) help you craft a visual story
4) lead your crew

Look harder, you'll probably be able to find someone. There are usually people around who are just starting out or doing cinematography on the side who like working on passion projects; it's worth a look. It's better than entrusting your film to someone you're not confident in...

8 years, 5 months ago - Mark Wiggins

You should never choose a cinematographer on the basis of the gear that they have. As has been mentioned elsewhere, its the cinematographer that makes the pictures, not the camera. You should choose on the basis of their cinematopgaphy, not the what cmera you have.

8 years, 5 months ago - Sergio Falchi

@Rakesh Malik, thank you for your answer! At this stage the fact is that the risk to do something inappropiate is high...you're absolutely right even if in this situation the two mentioned are in the same stage of"someone who's looking to start doing something new" nut both without a proper knowlrdge of a DOP role, especially i am frightened about the lighting...a bad lighting means amateurish....about point 1 and 3 i am a little bit more confident that I could do something almost"decent" planning a detailed storyboard while on location scouting and within the script, but lighting(and related gear) are the crucial milestone, considering also the chance to have almost the 80% to be filmed in the night and in the countryside/beach+ Interior of a fishing shed.

@ Mark Wiggins thank you for your suggestion...yes I am not wondering about a super high definition or great gear, just thinking about a camera with good range of capturing in the low light and so not a super TV camera for daily light broadcasting with no cinematographic lenses.

They have basically not a "cinematography", apart from weddings(and spot) the second and little spot the first...they're newcomers in the "cinematic purpose"

Just thinking: It's ok to choose one and start doing something OR wait and looking for someone else and keep struggling with a "zero-low budget" purpose procrastinating things until a real DOP accept to join the project?

8 years, 5 months ago - Glyn Carter

How about coming up with two other short ideas, writing them, and shooting one with each of your contacts. Do it quick and rough for learning and experience. Write scripts that can test the kind of cinemtography you want, but don't invest so much (time, money or emotion) that "failure" matters. It's a learning experience, and you never know, they might turn out fine.

Then take what you've learned and apply it to your main project. You'll know which DP you want to work to work with, or neither. I don't know your own level of experience, but if you're fairly new, you'll also learn so much more about planning, directing actors, sound, etc, and build working relationship with other crew.

8 years, 5 months ago - Rakesh Malik

Glyn's idea sounds like a good one, it's basically a test run for both wannabe DPs.

Do keep in mind that the DP is also in charge of your crew. One side effect of having a good DP on your team is that your shoot will run a lot more smoothly than if you don't. And if you're leading the crew, then you're not directing. I've crewed with several directors who concentrate on the gear, and their work almost invariably suffers. They're not able to craft performances all that well when they're tied up with the crew and with technical details instead of with the actors.

It is worth it to take the time to find a good cinematographer, or at least one who understands what cinematography is first, and can keep the details out of your hair.

8 years, 5 months ago - Sergio Falchi

Dear Glyn, thank you so much for your advice. I have to cope with the fact that I am a writer really new about directing, your idea is the RIGHT one...but time is running out , considering only this little contest with the deadline the 15 April, not generally speaking, so that I am just thinking about putting them together..maybe considering that both are not real DOP with Cinematic experience in films BUT that they're happy to help me for free I could go for one as operator and editor(his main skill) and the other as head of lighting...Certainly one of them must be the head of the"department", but they seems to be happy also to collaborate..so maybe at this stage if the roles are clear I could try to "test them" both in one project and then let's see what happens...I will have to use a lot of "smart attitude" and a smooth lead in directing, but the good thing is that it's all for zero money, crew included,,,so the only thing I have to loose(I know is not a little thing)is an emotional outburst but...If I want to start I have to risk....for the next project in this way I could be fully aware of pros and cons of both or probably if both of them are not OK for me I should be sure about the need to find out somebody else. My major project( a feature) is far to be ready to be filmed by now and I am planning to shoot at least 3 short within 6 months max before it...this first experiment is really ambitius about locations and "photography" but is zero cost also about settings and locations so Rakesh...probably the final question is...I could be almost decent in directing in a really new"working environment" with a reduced newbie crew with two guys developing my indication technically speaking or I'am going to fall in a real mess? I completely understand your point...if I'll decide to postpone all the next decision would be to buy a plane ticket and landing in the UK for a relocation(it's all in my plans)...if anyone wants to join for a 3 min projects about an unexpected meeting between a defeated man and a little refugees on the run that will change the man perspective about a loss and the refugees reality ,all in a night on the beach and inside a ruined fishing shed/house please let me know;)...and I will take a plane within a couple of weeks;)

8 years, 5 months ago - Dan Selakovich

2 DPs? not a good idea. Here's what I'd do: make storyboards for the entire film. Create a color palette for each scene, or the entire film if you're just using one. Meet with each DP after they've read the script and ask them about your shot design and color. Which ever one improves upon your work, hire that one.

8 years, 5 months ago - Rakesh Malik

I thought you were IN the UK... (I'm not, I'm on the other side of the pond, and still on the wrong side of the border... I'm in the US until I move to Canada). :)

Two DPs isn't a good idea, though if one is willing to be operator and not be DP then it might work, unless the one who's operator lets his ego get in the way.

The operator works for the DP. Don't make the mistake of thinking that "DoP" means "camera operator" -- it doesn't, even though some DoPs operate as well as direct the photography.

You should make storyboards anway; that's part of the director's job. Test out your editor's suitability by having him review and advise you on your storyboard; in other words, edit it before you shoot it, so that you know precisely what shots you'll need, then work with the one who's going to be your DP and see if they can help you figure out lighting and blocking.

Keep the shoot simple... don't try to do a lot of fancy moving camera stuff; that makes things more complicated, and you don't have a DP who can enable you to pull that off. Just don't try it; focus instead on your story.

8 years, 5 months ago - Mark Wiggins

The confusion between DOP and Camera Operator is a common one, particularly here on Shooting People and one I have addressed here before. Many DOPs operate, however, when they do, they are doing TWO jobs. I am a Camera Operator but, like many Camera Operators, I do DOP jobs as well; to add to the confusion. Gaffers, too, can go between DOP and Gaffer; its just the way it is.

8 years, 5 months ago - Sergio Falchi

Dan, Rakesh, Mark, Thank you so much for your advice...yes 2 DOP's seems to be too risky, unlesee they were used to work together as a "teammate" but this is not the case. I 'm going to have a meeting with both this evening, I MUST have a solid storyboard before starting shooting, ot be selfconfident and to avoid lack of time and misunderstanding. I did some in the past even if without shooting so that I think I could do it effectively with calm when the location will be secured.

the "mixed" duties between DOP/operator/focus puller/gaffer is the main topic....the solution could be:

select one for the DOP role giving him the whole responsability of lighting/operating/focus

Select one for light settings and the other one as operator.

The crucial issue is Who is in head of shooting following my indications and who is just helping(leaving his ego away)

an other things to be considered is that one og them have also sound kit, not a super kit but some directional microphones and maybe a boom. this is the one who could also edit and post with me. So a final idea could be:

A)DOP and lighting: the one who also operate+focus puller(I don't thing we will have the wireless focus, if yes focus could be done in charge to the second one).

B)(helping while operating)+Grips+ sound+editing and post: the other one,+ Aerial DRONE operator if needed(and in this case head of the shooting for the whole scene where the drone is included)

Another idea:

DOP and lighting: the one who should be credited as "Cinematographer
The other one: Operator + focus the one who should be credited as "Operator+sound" and post

Another editor for editing with me.

Using another guy's help for grip and another one for sound(BOOM) so to not annoing them too much. The trick is to involve both...

I am slightly obsessed with the colour palette, as I have no experience I am just thinking to explain them what is my aim and the genral tone, hoping to be consistent between different scenes, I know that a lot could be fixedin post , but I would like to shoot right more than to just hoping for fixing it after...





obiouvsly a couple of guys will be with us too for grip and miscellaneous for sound etc...

Considering that they're both "videomaker" used to do everything by theirselves this couls be a way to let them in both.

Yes I do definitely do it simple...(the drone is just a speculative idea for a car accident), considering that I am first of all a writer , I trust that is ALL in the story, with calm and "eye" I will try to do simple shoot, even if night shoot with moonlight, fire and gas lamp in the main central scene...I have a lot of steadycam shooting and also POV shooting but not a faster flowing of images. It's a little drama with some tension and poetry, not a super fast video...simpler is better,.

PS
I am a huge fan of the idea of "Editing in camera" not as a strict rule, but as an attitude. when I plan the speculative shooting of other scenes I worked on the storyboard for months , until I felt it's all ok. Now I don't have so much time but I am open to postpone everything if the whole story wasn't correctly storiboarded. As I am not a genious and a newbie I do think that "step by tep and humility is a must"

PS 2 Rakesh I am also thinking to relocate for 6 month in canadfa with a temporary 6 months VISA I obtained :) , not ready by now...first a couple (or more) of good(hopefully) shorts than a complete rewrite of a feature I wrote and then maybe withing 8-10 months I Could take a plane for Canada:)

8 years, 5 months ago - sabina jay

Hi rakesh if you are going to Canada shooting something as a calling card and learning to run a shoot could be really valuable and you could save your script for Canada and submit it to Toronto

8 years, 5 months ago - Rakesh Malik

I'll never stop learning at every possible opportunity, which includes every shoot I'm on. That is really what I'm best at; taking what I already know and using to help me learn more.

I've run quite a few shoots now, and I'm working on a couple of films that will make for nice calling cards, even though one of them is going to take a while to get through post because it's a feature that's going into production this summer.

My own scripts however I might just do that... save them for after I move, and link up with producers and directors who can help me realize them. :)

I definitely want to do that soon though, I'm getting really tired of working with crews and cast who don't take filmmaking seriously, think that operating a camera is cinematography, and think that random gimbalology is great filmmaking.

I do have the fact of Canadian birth in my favor...

Sergio, see if you can find a sound design student to do sound for you. Don't ask me how many times I've had to not only lend my sound gear to productions, but also coach the newbie sound recordist throughout an entire shoot, as if the DP doesn't already have enough responsibilities to worry about without adding the sound recording to the plate.

8 years, 5 months ago - Sergio Falchi

Hi Shobina! Rakesh yes Italia probabilmente coulisse ha è the help of a keven sound designer forse the post buttare notizie sarebbe forse the audio durino shooting. Audio is a realizzare topico because if notizie properly set with a decente kit and/ora right user everything will bene amateurish. Dialogues are notizie a lot, butta the febbraio onestamente must bene GOOD.
I can't say a lot because my lack of esperienience but I agreè with you about the fact that good cinematography and good frames and shots are NOT a competizione of "fast gimbalism and random psycothic camera movements, especially if notizie useful visually and relativo totale the story. Every camera movement must be planned and done for a reason....

Ps Canada could be a great gateway for a career twist....this is a theorical plan also for me but I am too far from this stage by now, let's try to do something decente andare than ano thermos one andare may bene onestamente third andare then...let's see What's will be the result

8 years, 5 months ago - Sergio Falchi

Sorry for the multiple typos....italian automatic corrector keyboard.

8 years, 5 months ago - Rakesh Malik

I might well wind up with another soul-sucking IT contract shortly... if that happens, I'm just going to save up as much money as I can, and after wrapping on this summer's feature film, use that savings to move to BC and dive headlong into a film career, and give up on Seattle's pitiful excuse for a film community.

8 years, 4 months ago - Sergio Falchi

Dear all, just a little update on what happened: I want for the one with the most "cinematic eye and sensibilities" despite of the relative lack of gear...and I am very happy about the result!we're a very small crew so that the DOP was also camera operator and head of lighting, even if I strictly collaborate in setting lights....and ehm he was also the focus puller, we had to do some takes more for focus problem but finally, even considering the relaxed mood of the scenes(even if only with gas lights and in the night ext/int), everything went well. Now we're at editing(with an editor, a girl, who's also there for continuity and a supportive eye during the shoot). The other guy is not in the team, but it's all a matter of choice...next time maybe!