ASK & DISCUSS INDEX

6 years ago - John Lubran

Ouch Louisa, you've been gazumped and it'd be a challenging litigation to contest, perhaps not impossible, depending on the devilish details but probably an uphill struggle. It's a pity that your family members, announced on your crowdfunding page, were disloyal to you. Some valuable life lessons learned.

Yes intellectual property is extremely vulnerable and I can state from experience just how mercenary are so many in our industry even within some organisations that many can be forgiven for believing would be honourable. Sadly one ought not trust anyone you don't know, now matter how charming or friendly they might present themselves. We can often delude ourselves that the lovies on either side of the camera in TV and film are nicer and more honourable than in other industries.

The lesson is that key contributors need to be locked in with written agreements, typically on a limited time basis. Getting such agreements usually entails them being offered some sort of benefits or moral aspiration. Ideas can't be copyrighted unless articulated in some specific detail that might discourage plagiarism.

I do feel for you Louisa, I've experienced how this feels. To have your project hijacked from a crowdfunding page suggests that there's despicable folk who trawl these pages as any criminal might case other people's property. Twice we've had reason to know that projects havebeen stolen by commissioners employed by major broadcasters after pitching to them. On both occasions they told us, after an indecent interval, that by coincidence they were already developing very similar projects with their mates in another production company. We've freed ourselves from any dependence on such corporate institutions.

Spare us from those who pretend that butter doesn't melt in their mouths.

Nevertheless crowd funding remains the most wonderful thing for those with the sort of ideas that enough people in the world care about. There's more than one crowdfunding model available; which can differ greatly from the sort of methodologies some 'experts' and crowdfunding platforms seek to sell us.

6 years ago - Louisa Rechenbach

Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts, John!
Definitely a lesson for the next one.

6 years ago - Joe Conneely

I think John has hit most key points - the rub in your case is the subject family involved who were by being included in your Funding exercise open to being approached by another party. I assume you had no contractual arrangements with them so you have little leverage or legal rights I suspect.

I worked very indirectly with a few documentary film makers a few years ago who were very clear you never gave away key information or data in a pitch to stop this happening from their own bitter experience - they were particularly bitter about how the major TV channels were the most mercenary in taking other people's ideas especially after they had had meetings with you and heard you pitch your current ideas!!

6 years ago - Allan (Mac) McKenna

Is there no morality in this business? What sort of society do we live in that declares some things illegal (I won't bother to list any - I'm sure you know where I'm coming from) and allows Louisa to be 'robbed' like this. No thoughts of revenge Louisa? I'd be spitting nails.

6 years ago - graeme holmes

Hi Louisa - it may be worth you approaching the exec in charge at the broadcaster as it seems to me this would most probably be the work of an opportunistic, unscrupulous individual who found your site and then pushed it to the broadcaster via a production company. The chances are that the broadcaster doesn't know anything about the provenance of this and may well be interested to know. They may also be sympathetic to you and keen to protect their reputation. So you might get something out of it.
But as others have said, you can't copyright an idea - only the detailed expression of that idea - so in future write it out explicitly in as much detail as you can and sign up any vital contributors with an access agreement - only then should you go public in any form.

6 years ago - Keith Farrell

Hi Louisa,

I have being making documentaries for nearly two decades now and I can tell you your story is so common, just like John's experience, the amount of times I have gone in and pitched to broadcasters and weeks later had them come back and say "we have a very similar project in development." However, the fact that some development producers are trawling crowdfunding sites looking for documentary ideas is a new low and if nothing else you have at least given us all a heads up warning that this is going on. It's not much of a consolation but sharing your experience will help other from having this happen to us.

Joe is also correct that the only protection is have exclusivity agreements with the contributors (which is what the broadcaster will almost certainly get from the family you filmed with) and never sharing key details about "your pitch" but sadly that will only help you as you move forward on other project.

One thing that might be useful also for the future would be to get hold of some simple template release and consent documents that all film makers could use for contributor to protect their exclusivity with their contributors. I know PACT have sample legal template documents on their site as do Directors UK but if you can't afford the fees (and who can starting out) then send a post out on SP and I am sure someone will be able to help.

However, if I can add to Joe and John's comments one thing that comes from my experience as a documentary maker. I have in the past worked for broadcasters and if I can give you a little bit of inside knowledge from my experience working with broadcasters is that if you can beat them to the punch when it comes to a release it really upsets them and they can shelve programmes if they think someone has already "won the audience" for the film from them. Many years ago I was working for a TV station and we had a documentary in production that a rival got wind of and that rival rushed into production another documentary on the same subject and scheduled it to air before our film, which led to our film getting shelved for 18 months and broadcast on a graveyard slot. Our broadcaster felt that the rival had spiked our story and so we wouldn't get an audience.

So in terms of response to this broadcaster poaching your project, there is not a lot you can do but maybe what you can do is beat your rival to the punch. If this broadcaster plans to launch their film on line in September, what you are going to find is that you may struggle to get accepted into festivals (in the UK in particular), who will assume you have just followed the broadcaster in telliing this story, rather then being the originator of the project who has had their story poached.

So the one thing you could do, that would allow you to fight back in a small way is bringing forward the release date for your film on-line (particularly if you think the broadcaster is going to spoil your chances of getting into festivals), post your film on vimeo, youtube etc with as big of a social media blitz as you have the time and resources to do, share it with everyone you know, ask them to share it and build up a buzz. So that you in effect beat the broadcaster at their own game. If you share it on Shooting People I am sure we will all share it on as well and help you build your own audience for your film. If your film can win an on-line audience it might force the broadcaster to pull their TX date and you win a moral victory if nothing else.

Sorry I can't offer more advice.

6 years ago - John Lubran

The thing is though Keith that Louisa probably can't afford to play such games or expend so much vengeful effort and resource for so little return. They say revenge is best savoured cold. Louisa knows who they are. What turns around comes around.

6 years ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin

Just a thought - is it worth contacting the producers saying having seen what they're up to having hijacked your project (put more diplomatically) that perhaps you should join forces as you will likely have other resources they will want and it's cheaper/easier to buy you out than DIY. In return you'll take a production credit. Could turn it into a win-win.

6 years ago - Alwyne Kennedy

Kick them in.

6 years ago - Benjamin Kent

Random idea, but presuming the broadcasting house we're talking about is a public funded body, maybe you could try getting in contact with the Department for Digital, Culture, Media & Sport? Or even your local MP? This is absolutely unacceptable behaviour from an organisation funded by the license fee - exploiting the very people that pay for it. I doubt they'll do anything, what with every ounce of political energy being expended on Brexit, but can't hurt to try.

Alternative idea, make a documentary about how a publicly funded broadcaster steals ideas - there's a good chance one of their competitors will want to show it!

6 years ago - Zan Barberton

Do BECTU have advice? I'm with those who say approach the producers. Yes there are some bad apples but most telly people like to at least operate under the illusion that they are one of the good guys. A well-worded letter that stops short of completely shaming them but invites them to make amends in some way could go a long way. Particularly if that letter mentions key-words such as "lawyers", "BECTU" or the name of the channel exec that commissioned it. Sweet with a hint of steel. They don't KNOW what agreements / legalities / proofs you have in place. They don't KNOW who you know, and reputation is precious in this industry. Exploit that. If they fail to take you seriously then Broadcast magazine might find the story interesting.

6 years ago - Yen Rickeard

Paddy Robinson-Griffin and John Lubran hit the spot Louisa. It may hurt your pride to follow their advice, but it may get you a more positive outcome. On the other hand going for revenge is a good way to get a reputation for being hard to work with, and you don't want that.

6 years ago - Louisa Rechenbach

Hey everyone,

Thank you SO much for taking your time to reply to my post, your advice was really valuable to me!
I have spoken to quite a few people in the industry and decided not to release my film online for now. We will actually be able to announce some quite big UK festivals soon, so my aim now is to get some publicity around our film as soon as the festival programmes launch (and that will hopefully be just before they release their film). I am still not sure though whether I should make a public thing about this case, as I fear that this might load my project with unnecessary negativity?
I have also sent an email to the contact person at the broadcaster and was quite protective about our project - let's wait for the reply ;)

Thanks again! Lou

5 years, 12 months ago - George Brian Glennon

For future reference for everyone on SP, while one can't copyright an idea, one can place on record the very minute details of a project with a lawyer of record, and then copyright anything that can be copyrighted, before the world sees any part of it, including interaction with anyone else in the industry.

It's little effort and expense, relatively speaking, if your project has any chance of blowing up commercially.

Depending on how much you had on record before the intellectual property theft, Louisa, hiring a PR firm and going to the media may embarrass the firm that did this to the point of a settlement. Depending on how much you can show, I would go public.
Most professional organizations have a "Code of Conduct".

People in the business should have an entertainment industry lawyer as part of your career team. If one can't afford that then their are usually "Lawyers for the Arts" that can advise for a very reduced rate.

There is nothing more gutless than stealing someones creative work.

5 years, 12 months ago - Mät King

Are you 100% sure that your project was viewed and then copied?
The reason I ask I this: how did you get the idea and decide on those contributors? Was it randomly? Based on a news story? Is it possible they did the same? I am not making excuses for anyone much less well - connected production companies and broadcasters.
It reminds me of Melanie Griffith in Working Girl. She substantiates her idea based on the purely esoteric organic nature of her genesis. Sorry to not be of any practical help but I hope your project flourishes.

5 years, 12 months ago - Louisa Rechenbach

Hey Mät,

After I have had the idea for the topic, I have spent about two years meeting different families and organisations related to the subject matter. I have found my contributors through a facebook group, but they are very private about their child on social media and have not been on TV or in a news article before (my film is around the topic of parenting). I have been in touch with the journalist who made the other film and she told me that she found the contributors through the theatre company they work for. However, their theatre work is not connected to the approach of parenting that they are practising and I have realised that the mistake that we have made was to name the theatre company in our crowdfunding campaign.
What bothers me the most is that the other journalist got to see my film before their shoot but still decided to go with the same family and even to include very similar shots (cut aways mostly).
Anyways, I am looking to make this a long term project out of this and signed a form with the family that gives me exclusive documentary rights for the next 5 years so this hopefully won't happen again! We all learn from our mistakes ;)

Thanks for all your support!
Lou

5 years, 12 months ago - Mät King

So in effect the other company were fully aware of your project and the subject matter, and yet still followed a similar path. That is astonishing in its outright blatancy.
I hope your film brings you every success you hope for.

5 years, 12 months ago - MARCIO DELGADO

Hi Louisa,
Although I can sympathise with your situation, producers and independent filmmakers often forget that, once you publish something online, be it a concept, a poetry or a cake recipe ... you are ‘giving’ it to whoever grabs it first and copy/amend/remake it.
And more: ALL medium to large production companies and broadcasters have interns and paid staff to spend their shifts ‘researching’ on the web and across crowdfunding sites for ‘inspiration’ - just ask around and you will find out how the ‘creative’ industry work these days in the UK and USA, unfortunately.

5 years, 11 months ago - Maddie Kitchen FRSA

Are you a BECTU member? You could ask them, free legal advice.