ASK & DISCUSS INDEX

12 years, 11 months ago - Andi Reiss

Julian

I'm a documentary producer/director and I shot some stuff with a 5d mark 2 last year. For a documentary, it was very difficult to work with for two reasons, notably the 12 min recording limit and the need to constantly change lenses for best use. I love this camera, but for my documentaries I'll continue using my Sony cameras. On that note, I'm leaving the country for a year or so and have two Sony EX1 camera kits for sale. YOu can see more at: http://andireiss.wordpress.com/the-yellow-collective/theteam/pr-and-marketing/sale/

If you are interested drop me an email at info@andireiss.com

Hope this helps...really, I think you'll struggle with the DSLR for a decent documentary shoot!

Cheers


Andi

12 years, 11 months ago - Colin Elves

I'd look at the Black Magic design cinema camera if I were you. http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/blackmagiccinemacamera/

The form factor is similar to a DLSR but it is a video camera - so has balanced audio inputs, focus peaking and no arbitrary record limits.

It takes EF lenses (useful if you already have a bunch if canon glass)

It records 12 bit Raw (i.e. cinema quality, better than broadcast) onto 2.5in discs (sandisk 240gb ssds are around £150 each).

The (2.5k - more than HD resolution) chip (supposedly) has masses of latitude (13 stops!) - something that you really need for docs as you'll be mixing interiors and exteriors a lot.

Plus you get a free copy of the Da Vinci resolve grading software (which I think is about £900 on it's own and may well be something you find useful to have as a producer anyway).

Plus it is under your budget (£1790+ vat at CVP)

The only down side is that it is a 16mm chip, so you don't get the shallower DoF of DSLRs (although personally, when shooting docs I feel a shallow DoF can be more of a hindrance than a benefit, as it's more of a struggle to keep the important stuff in focus!)

Also the form factor is not great for shooting hand held, so you may want to invest in a shoulder rig. But that is true of DSLRs as well.

Those are my thoughts.

Colin Elves,
DP, lighting cameraman & Steadicam Op

12 years, 11 months ago - Andrew Johnstone

I agree with Andi. If you're shooting a doc, you need to have everything at your finger tips, a variety of lens lengths offered by a zoom lens, great audio options, compact package size etc and the best way to do this is with a small camcorder. Of course some documentary filmmakers do use DSLR, but there re so many other bits of kit required to make up a shooting kit (audio kit, shoulder rigs, different lenses, follow focus, mat boxes etc), I would avoid going down this route.

The Sony EX1 is a great machine and has been an industry staple for the past 4 or 5 years, so Andi's offer looks pretty decent! But there are other cameras out there with better broadcast spec these days like the HPX250 and the xf305 and depending on what you plans are for your films, being able to provide film shot that complies with BBC and other broadcast standards may be an important consideration. Those shooting on the Ex1 tend to have to shoot to Nano flash - a £2k box that sits on top of the camera to record to.

Andy

12 years, 11 months ago - SP User

If image quality is your number one priority I would go down the DSLR route and if ease of use and practicality are important the XF100/105 would be a good purchase.

What I found through buying a Canon 7D was that it it totally reinvigorated my interest in filmmaking. Using a DSLR forces you to think about focal length, depth of field, shutter and all the important functions that camcorders handle automatically.

In terms of stability when shooting handheld, if you have a lens with Image stabilisation you can get really good results. The low weight of the camera and lens makes handheld work very feasible.

I'm still blown away by the quality of the images produced by DSLR filmmakers. But they are definitely more hassle, especially on the audio side. I found that the practicalities of working with a seperate audio recorder as well as concentrating on handling a DSLR quite demanding and went back to a camcorder for documentary work (xf305). However I missed the DSLR image quality so much that I have now bought a C300 which is everything that you would want in DSLR style filming.

For small projects I would definitely recommend trying out a DSLR, and you get to buy new lenses very once in a while which is alway exciting.

12 years, 11 months ago - Michael Lebor

It sounds like you are aware of all of the pitfalls and I would generally warn against Dslr's - especially nowadays with people getting fed up of the dslr 'look' and so many competitive camcorders offering changeable lens systems. Having said that I still shoot Documentary on my 5D system but it has taken years to perfect. I have one battery charging a mixer, a zoom sound recorder, and the 5D itself, which avoids much hassle. The mixer allows me to record the sound straight onto the camera as well as simultaneously onto the zoom recorder and to be fully in control of levels. However this system is not for the faint hearted and requires lots of additional purchases including wires that for some crazy reason cost 80 bucks and break easily and a rig system (Jag Pro). The results are great but the hassle is almost equal to it. It looks like a camcorder with the outer skin ripped off. Also lenses are incredibly important and whatever camera you get you need to invest in the glass. I use Nikon nikor primes from the 60's - bought on ebay.

The last thing I shot on it was 'two years on (2012)' on vimeo. I love the results but I would love my life to be simpler and have a camcorder all under one roof.

12 years, 11 months ago - Ken Barnes

If you are serious about documentary, you will curse the ground that DSLRs walk on. To make a DSLR 'doc-ready' you need so many add-ons that it becomes a juggling act to get them all attached and keep track of them all. (same goes for Black Magic which was NEVER designed with docs in mind) Yes, you can make a good doc with a dslr, a zoom recorder and a proper shoulder brace and another mic to aid sync in post (another hassle, though minor with PluralEyes) but costs add up. And you compromise. No servo zoom (very handy for run and gun), no proper onboard sync sound, poor white balance options, no onboard ND filters, no gain control (use sparingly), short recording times (new dslrs have improved) the list goes on.... Do yourself a favour and get a Sony EX1, EX3 or the HXR-NX70E. (I'd avoid tape to avoid the capture issues, but I do miss the archive of tape) The former two camcorders may be discontinued now and used prices are decent. If you add an external recorder, you can meet the 50mb/s rate but it'll cost you. Now, Sony have released a great little camcorder, the PMW-200 which does it all and reviews are great. However, you'll need £5500 or so... I'd say it's worth it if you're selling to the big boys.
Good luck!

12 years, 11 months ago - Hamish Scadding

I'd also say no, (I bought a Panasonic AG-AF101 which has dropped in price to be around 5D Mk 3 money now) as I figured that by the time you've bought all the accessories that you need to film with a DSLR, capture audio, etc you're in the 3k + ballpark needed for a HD video camera and then you still have the DSLR negatives and workarounds. (If your budget will stretch a bit further) I can thoroughly recommend the AG-AF101, cinematic look but with all the benefits of being a video camera.

12 years, 11 months ago - SP User

It all depends what you are shooting and where. The dslrs will give you a much more cinematic look and capture reality beautifully. They are no pain to work with after time and well worth the difficulties. I would advise either the 7D or a second hand 5d mk 2 and with a couple of lenses 50mm, 24-70, 70-200mm you,all be away. Its all about the look you want but for the price dsrs are well worth it and you simply cannot achieve results a beautiful on an ex or similar camcorde. Xf100 also not broadcast spec. DSLRs used for a lot of broadcast now even though they are not certified.

12 years, 11 months ago - TONY iCreateMovies

Been using DSLR (7D & 5D) over 3years. I used traditional camcorders before then. Forget all the "Internet" problems associated with these cameras, they are easy to use and Canon 5D have manual audio controls.
I reccomend 5D mark2.

12 years, 11 months ago - Justin Temple

Wow. Thank you all so much for your invaluable advice - I've got a bit of thinking to do...!

12 years, 11 months ago - Ned Hussain

Canon XHA1 is much cheaper and does great. If you want to add lenses you should also purchase SGBlade with some nice lens