ASK & DISCUSS INDEX

3 years, 9 months ago - Alwyne Kennedy

Is this your Waiting For Mr. Right film? If so, I note that you are seeking other crew members, on an expenses only basis, and you are requesting that they also sign a contract. So I presume your cameraman is also doing it for expenses only? As your film is listed as having a budget of a maximum of £100, that would have to be so.

I cannot say what other people's attitude would be, but if I was offering to work for expenses only and someone presented me with a contract to sign so that I could secure that "privilege" of working for essentially free, I would tell them no thanks as it would feel like an insult.

People working for expenses only are doing you a favour, and demanding contracts be signed signifies mistrust – don't mistrust people who have agreed to do you a favour.

That's my advice. Other advice may be available.

3 years, 9 months ago - Buppha Wittaya-Amponpunt

I ask people to sign a contract as a security between us because although it's expenses only, but I do give them the footage, an IMdb credit, festival exposure. So, by not wanting to sign a contract, to me, it seems like he wants to have as much right for the film as me. He may claim he is the producer of the film since he is also the cameraman and the editor. He could use the film the way he wants as he's the one who produces it. Because he also asks me how much the festivals will cost and so on. When I ask him why, he says, I'm just curious.

There's something dodgy going on here. I have people working for me for the expenses, footage, IMDb credit, and festivals' exposure only before, and they all signed contract. No one had any problem with it. Maybe I should not ask this question here anyway when I already know what to do.

3 years, 9 months ago - Buppha Wittaya-Amponpunt

So, I suspect that he may plan to send the film to film festivals himself as well, as if he produces the film himself.

3 years, 9 months ago - Alwyne Kennedy

If your worry is that the expenses-only cameraman may steal your footage and claim to be the producer, why do you also request that Hair and Make-up also sign a contract? On your film's description you have written "Everyone working on this project must also sign the contract", so that would indeed include the Hair and Make-up person you are also seeking on an expenses only basis

Regarding your cameraman asking about festival costs – sometimes when people ask a question it is simply because they are casually curious. If he covertly intended to submit to festivals himself, he could easily go online and check the costs himself.

It seems your entire concern has been triggered by a casual question regarding the cost of submitting to festivals. Sorry to say this, Buppha, but you come across as a deeply mistrustful person. Paranoid, even. Paranoid over a short film with a budget of under £100 that will not be some kind of treasure that people will seek to steal from you.

I suggest you chill a little as you have already soured your relationship with people who had agreed to work for free on your project.

Those are my opinions and suggestions. Other opinions and suggestions may be available.

3 years, 9 months ago - Buppha Wittaya-Amponpunt

Everyone has to sign the contract, so no one can claim they are a producer. Also, for their own peace of mind if I did not give them what I promised them. In this sense, the contract will benefit everyone, not just me.

Anyway, I will consult someone else more knowledgeable on this before I start shooting the film. Thank you for your opinion, though.

3 years, 9 months ago - Buppha Wittaya-Amponpunt

Also, to accuse me for coming across as mistrustful or paranoid just because I want to do things the correct way to avoid problems in the future is quite rude of you. I think you went over the line here!

3 years, 9 months ago - Alwyne Kennedy

In my opinion, what is over the top is your desire to avoid problems - problems that you foresee, it seems, simply because your cameraman asked about the cost of submitting to festivals.

Also, how would you enforce your contracts if your (in my opinion) over the top fears are realised? Take people to court for stealing a film that has a budget of less than £100? I don't think it would be the kind of dispute that could be resolved by the Small Claims Court – you would have to do employ a solicitor... which might make your film's budget look minuscule in comparison to the legal bills you might face should you not eventually have your cameraman pay your legal costs.

I suggest you simply be grateful that people have agreed to work for expenses only and try not to impose conditions on people that you have no real reason to suspect of wishing to rip you off.

I'm bailing on this conversation now. Good luck getting your contracts signed. I know I wouldn't sign it as a matter of principle, but then again maybe I just bristle easily?

3 years, 9 months ago - Buppha Wittaya-Amponpunt

Like I said, you can come with your opinion. But to try to bully me or paint a negative picture of me is unacceptable!

I know what I am going to do, so. I don't need any more of your pessimistic opinion! I won't want to work with people like you either.

3 years, 9 months ago - Alwyne Kennedy

You must have led a very sheltered life if you thought I was bullying you.

3 years, 9 months ago - Buppha Wittaya-Amponpunt

That's it. I am going to report you to SP. I can’t take it anymore! It seems like you enjoy bullying me! Get a life!

3 years, 9 months ago - Alwyne Kennedy

I concede I was blunt and somewhat undiplomatic. But bullying? Let others be the judge of that.

Bullying would be several orders of magnitude above what I wrote, and what I wrote was only blunt advice, advice that I said you could take or leave.

If anyone has actually been a real bully, it has been you bullying people who agreed to work for free on your film, bullying them into signing heavy-handed contracts based on your groundless suspicions of intentions to steal footage.

By all means report me to SP. I might get a refund on my recent renewal if they boot me off. I once got booted off SP for objecting to not being allowed to offer for free film props that I had paid good money for a few years earlier. I was seeking to give away medical equipment that I had bought when it was described as being useful as film props. SP said that the items were not sufficiently linked to filmmaking to be allowed to be given away free on SP. Just one problem: I had actually bought the items on SP itself a few years before, described as useful for film props! I wasn't allowed to give away on SP something that I had paid money for on SP!

3 years, 9 months ago - John Lubran

Without seeing the contract at issue it's impossible to comment on it.

The devil is in the detail.

Contractual agreements can be a Pandora's Box. One begins with simplistic stuff about who owns and does what. Next comes the 'What ifs', showreels, limits to benefits and so forth.

The spat occuring between Buppha and Alwyne is not an issue of bullying or impropriety but a robust conversation.

It does seem from this issue and earlier posts that Buppha's legal and quasi legal pickles are a regular feature. Law and legality are important and being aware and prepared for unwanted consequences is not paranoia.

However, paranoia is a thing in itself. Ultimately it's about the vibes. Basic human relationships and underlying character. It's why people in film and television like to stick with the same production people that they know and have good relationships with. No need to reinvent proverbial wheels.

I've balked at some agreements presented to me that are impertinent and poorly drafted. Who writes these abominations !? Even release forms issued by major broadcasters have been unnecessarily overbearing and clearly drafted by a robotic mind lacking any human empathy, consequently asking intelligent and aware contributors to sign those wretched forms can be an uphill struggle. We easily drafted our own release forms that do the same job but with equitablity of intent.

Leaders have to be capable of better judgements than their junior functionaries. Moderators can sometimes get lost in their own small print and their own small worlds.

Without robust authenticity SP would lose its salver and many of its it's best contributors.

3 years, 9 months ago - DON CLOVIS JOYTO FILMS UK LTD

hi BUPPHA
Did you signed with them first an LOI with all, are you the producer, etc....
who did yr budget sheet, budget etc....if is you.. anyway y re the boss, also of your script etc...
If yr cameraman dont want signe, than choose an other.. if the crew follow hin and not you, just change them.. ( it would be better)
here on SHOOTING PEOPLES, are lots of opportunity, and good peoples in their worlk and honnest
DON CLOVIS
www.joytofilms.com also imdb

3 years, 9 months ago - Jackie Sheppard

Hi Buppha
It matters not that the crew are working for free, you should still have a contract with everybody providing a service to the film. That is essential. There is obviously something that is causing a problem between the crew and the contract and without seeing the contract it is hard to know what that might be. But you do need to resolve this issue before you start shooting.

3 years, 9 months ago - davina brown

What you need to do is ask the cast and crew to sign a simple release form granting you copyright which enables you to screen the film and enter it into festivals, etc. Google film release form. Also, in the future, it pays to hire cast and crew members one at a time and not by recommendation of other crew. It's the only way to maintain control of your project and avoid your current situation.