ASK & DISCUSS INDEX

11 years, 3 months ago - Stephan Cotton

You might want to consider what Hitchcock learned when Saboteur flopped at the box office - never harm dogs or children.

11 years, 3 months ago - Marlom Tander

Just riffing, but a prop dog head built on a hard hat and worn by a scuba diver, who can then use their hands to create "struggle splashes". Probably a lot of takes but local scuba clubs might well provide a volunteer.

11 years, 3 months ago - Darren Roberts

If you've got a water proof camera or can make your camera water proof you could always shoot the scene from the dog's POV and then have the "dog" go into the water then get into trouble or get held under, whatever it is that causes it to drown, I should say I'm a writer so I don't work directly with cameras but that seems a way you can do it without having to get a fake dog or you could show the dog in the water then the owner wondering where it is and searching around and spotting it in the water but be unable to get to it, I remember hearing about a dog that drowned when it got stuck in an old drainage pit that had sloped sides so it couldn't crawl back out and the owner found it dead but couldn't get in to retrieve it, so maybe focus on the owners reaction rather than showing the dead dog, hope that helps.

11 years, 3 months ago - D. James Newton

You don't drown a dog.
You give the impression the dog has drowned.
The dog goes into the water...
It swims - or doesn't - depending on the story...
Then it disappears.
The reactions of those around - or the stillness and silence if it happens remotely - inform the audience what has happened.
Ensure you use audio to reflect the 'swimming or dog in water' and then contrast that with utter silence...save for water lapping at the edge or leaves in the trees etc.
It's the reaction to the event that is important - not the actual event itself.
(First rule of storytelling unless it's an action movie)

11 years, 3 months ago - Daniel Cormack

For the sake of realism, I would drown the actual dog.

I know they're man's best friend, but, with apologies to Stewart Lee, my best friend doesn't defecate in children's playgrounds, attempt to have sex with the leg of every person who visits my house nor need their anal gland to be milked on a regular basis.

Drown the fucker.

11 years, 3 months ago - Andrew Morgan

D. James nailed it - get the dog in the water happily splashing and playing around then cut to a conversation which ends when the participants realise the dog's stopped splashing/barking - queue frantic search for missing dog and possible discovery of a very waterlogged and furry (and hopefully non-crap) prop dead dog...

11 years, 3 months ago - Michael Chandler

Wow! Thanks everyone - all of these are great! (and by all means keep them coming).
I'll admit when reading the script, this scene was my biggest concern, and you've all raised some very valid (and some quite funny) points!
For me, I think the scene is more symbolic than a necessity, and given cost constraints we may have to consider other ways of representing the point. This is quite a dark and unusual film with some interesting elements - so I may have a few more questions coming your way.
But thanks for all of this so far. Great food for thought. I'll keep you posted on how we get on...

11 years, 3 months ago - Karel Bata

D. James certainly does nail it.

Though I'd add a shot indicating potential danger to the dog. Something that makes the audience think "Uh-oh, trouble," Then you cut back to the humans on shore, and the audience will think they should be paying attention to the dog, now in danger. Sticking with them is then justified as it racks up the tension while we wonder what happening to the dog. Perhaps we hear a bark, which they ignore. Then... it's gone. Their reaction is everything.

Think of Jaws before you actually see the shark.

The Under The Skin idea is interesting. Talk to their art dept http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1441395/fullcredits/

11 years, 3 months ago - David Hewitt

Have you seen the film 'under the skin' ? A dog drowns in that in very choppy water. I believe they used a prop dog that was designed to only just have it's head above water and looked like it was struggling. Your posting doesn't say whether your film requires the viewer to witness the drowning or not. But any creative editing gets you around this easily. Find a prop dog you can get wet then cast the dog according to the prop dog?

11 years, 3 months ago - Yen Rickeard

Hi Micheal,
Not an easy question, on many counts. So, what does this dog look like? Does your actor dog like water? Does it swim neatly or splashingly?
Film the dog swimming. Do lots of close up on front legs splashing, water movement on fur, fur on water, ripples etc.
If there is water shallow enough, try to get the dog to 'roll over' in it shooting at an angle so you don't see how shallow it is. If you shoot this is in slow-mo it should give you lots of wet fur and movement in a non-swimmy style suggesting struggle.
If the fur is long, concentrate on it floating in the water.
Can you buy some fake-fur, or floppy soft toy of roughly the same colour and size as the dog? It needn't be too close a match. film it floating lifeless on the water.
Glad you are not afraid of a big challenge. Good luck with it - you are going to need it.
Yen Rickeard

11 years, 3 months ago - Stephen Potts

You've set yourself a difficult and costly challenge. To convince an audience the dog drowns, you have to show it swimming, then struggling, then dead - and you have to make us believe it would happen that way. Dogs are natural swimmers, and will only drown if ill, injured, snagged underwater or trapped under ice. It's easy enough to show a live dog swimming, or suggest a dead dog floating - so what you are really asking is how to show it appearing to struggle. There are loads of Youtube clips of dogs swimming underwater, and what they all convey is how much the dogs love it. You could shoot something similar, if you have any frends with a swiming pool, and then, by coming in really close, editing carefully and using slo-mo you might convey a sense of struggle. (But you can't show the dog's eyes because their enjoyment shines through.)
I'd ask different questions, taking it back to the story: why is it necessary the dog should die? why by drowning? what is it that stops the dog swimming away and escaping? I'm guessing you aren't the writer, and therefore not in a position to change things - but the questions can still be asked.

11 years, 3 months ago - Tim iloobia

I just noticed you post and think Stephen has made a very good point. Dogs are very good at displaying their natural emotions, so distress, which a drowning dog would certainly display, would almost certainly have to be a genuine state unless you could find a fine acting dog ( but thats a lot of money to hire the animal and trainer and you also have to ask how was the dog trained to look like it was in distress) therefore on a low/no budget film i would be most worried about the full and proper welfare of any animal involved in a simulation such as this. You would be open to huge issues if there was any harm either mental or physical that came to the animal, and why would you want to put an animal through any potential distress? If i were posed with this situation i may take a slightly different approach than actually seeing the event itself and use suggestion in a greater way. If you have seen the very fine film The Hunt, a dog is killed but you see none of the act itself, just the aftermath. Even the burial of the dog is brilliantly sparse. So much drama comes from seeing so little in terms of the animal but so much from the key actors. So in your case i would use the panic and drama of the human actors in the scene instead of having an animal go through any kind of acting which it simply wont understand. And offscreen sound of a distressed animal will add to the drama. The briefest of glimpses, from a distance, of the dog (which could be a puppet/model going under water with flailing legs ) could be the only visual needed. but please dont risk the welfare of a dog if you cant afford the proper process. I hope this is useful.