ASK & DISCUSS INDEX

9 years, 9 months ago - Alève Mine

Dan, thanks much.

Without looking at the script, here is what I remember: approximate first line, approximate last line, the start of the music that should come at the end (the sound of it), and apart from that, images. The looks on the characters' faces, the spaces. An OTS shot in particular. Sounds made by groups of people (not by individuals, for some reason). Plus of course some phases/scenes. I don't remember the commas! There must be a few! I'll analyze any way possible before the session, keeing in mind the examples you mention.

Was that script at Sundance filmed later? You may want to shoot it now...

I've learned in the music to evolve immediately upon getting relevant feedback. The important thing is to identify what's relevant, and which components thereof are relevant. I may get defensive at first, but that should be ignored, because then I do distill carefully what the feedback was about into subsequent work. My experience (with the wrong people) is: when I swiftly come up with a new version of the work having integrated the feedback, that scares the shit out of the originator of the feedback. Those are not ready to carry the consequences of their opinions being taken seriously. Some use giving feedback as a means of creating a relationship while preventing results. Of evading a "go away, you're not already famous" together with a "stick around, it's nice to have you around". Time is valuable for everybody, and that includes those with less than a million followers.

That said, in a festival like this one, things should be different.

It wiil be really, really, really hard to do as you say. Extremely hard. One prerequisite is: being sure that recognition as a screenwriter brings trust as a director. How does that work?

9 years, 9 months ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin

I'm going to say the opposite to Nick, and say prepare the arse off if it! Here's my reasoning - your session is for an unspecifie, but finite, amount of time. That time could be spent reading through 30 pages of dialogue together, and discussing the flow, or it could be spend working on the story beats, casting requirements, rough budget, etc. If the consultant has to read a 180pp script, and from that construct timelines, analyse principal and sub-stories, think about characters, dart around the script to see if a section calls back to another, etc..., then that's their analysis time used superficially. If, on the other hand, you provide the script, a 3 page treatment, character and location breakdowns, breakdowns of any money scenes, etc., then the analyst can start looking at the script as an expression of a story, and probably give you more significant feedback.

I am happy that I might be wrong and Nick completely correct, by the way, just an alternative view which may give you more options to think about. It'll vary analyst by analyst, by their experience, by the time available, by what you actually want from the session, etc.

One last thing, though, is that the analyst is also just giving an opinion. She might be right, might be way off. She might make period drama and you've got a sci-fi comedy on offer. Always listen to everything they have to say/offer, but take it as advice rather than fact. They could be totally wrong with everything they say, but the fact they say it should make you think about your project afresh and weigh up their words!

9 years, 9 months ago - Alève Mine

will, not wiil :)

9 years, 9 months ago - Alève Mine

So the session took place and was great. Smooth, useful, relevant. Made a lot of sense. Preparation wasn't necessary (just knowing your script, I guess: you have to be able to connect stuff - as soon as they come up in the conversation - with other stuff in the model you have of your script in your mind) We took a lot more time than planned, and went through everything. Now I know what to change in the next draft. And am being sent to a producer. :)

9 years, 9 months ago - Alève Mine

festival, not fastival :)

9 years, 9 months ago - Alève Mine

Thanks Dan!

9 years, 9 months ago - Alève Mine

Thanks, I took note, will do that as soon as I get a chance.

9 years, 9 months ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin

Congratulations Alève, sounds like it was worthwhile :)

9 years, 9 months ago - Dan Selakovich

Hard Eight is fucking amazing, Aleve. If you have the opportunity, try to find "Tangerine". All shot on an iPhone, directed by Sean Baker. Lot's of buzz around town about it. (Though I've only seen bits of it, but it looks pretty great).

9 years, 9 months ago - Alève Mine

Thanks Paddy. Definitely.

9 years, 9 months ago - Nick Goundry

Aleve, of course the whole purpose of the script is to suggest how the film will be shot and the best scripts do that by creating a vivid image in the reader's mind. If you're determined to direct it, then you can consider producing it yourself too and coming up with the money yourself. Probably rewriting the script for a tiny budget. That way it'll be a lot easier to get made.

If your experience so far is as a writer, then directing is perhaps something to build up to over the long-term.

9 years, 9 months ago - Dan Selakovich

That's awesome, Aleve! Congratulations.

9 years, 9 months ago - Nick Goundry

Hi Aleve. To get the most out of the process, you need to have some realistic expectations about what producers are going to allow you do, considering your experience. Being a writer is all about rewriting - a 'simple' story is very hard to tell well - and the nature of the beast is that the process of rewriting is not likely to stop until you actually have a final edit of a film.

When you get a script evaluated by someone who knows their stuff, you can certainly second-guess them, but be careful you're not doing that simply because you'd rather believe they're wrong. That's an easy way to move into production with a poor script.

If you want to get paid to direct, you'll need to direct a catalogue of short films to show producers what you can do. Either that or work your way up the hierarchy on a lot of professional shoots. If you have a genuinely great script that you insist on directing, you'll find it very hard to move forward.

It's also important to recognise who gets to make which decisions on a film set. Writers don't get to choose the soundtrack. They can make a suggestion that's relevant to the plot, but it's ultimately the director's choice. Crucially, writers shouldn't script specific shots. It's one of the first signs of an inexperienced writer. You can write in a way that suggests a shot, but again it's the director's decision where the camera goes.

And getting recognition as a screenwriter has little impact on a producer trusting you to direct. They're two completely different jobs, and it's an enormous transition that Hollywood's top writers screw up all the time.

9 years, 9 months ago - Nick Goundry

Congrats on getting selected, Aleve! A full script analysis usually involves advice on the commercial viability of your story, and then comprehensive feedback on your story and its structure.

You can go into the session with a list of points you think need to be addressed, but otherwise you don't need to worry about a pre-analysis. The point of the session is to get an objective viewpoint.

I would say be ready for constructive criticism, especially if this is the first time you're getting feedback from a truly objective reader. It's easy to get defensive of a script you've laboured on forever, only to then have it picked apart. But when you're open to a thorough critique, it will only help you improve, and potentially make big changes to elements of the story you love.

A script coaching session isn't really about getting production funding. It's about improving the story. But of course improving the story mechanics gives you a better chance of winning writing competitions and getting attention. If it's the first objective analysis you've had, you're most likely looking at several more rewrites before going through the analysis process again. Then you're onto writing competitions again, and approaching specific producers with a tightly-written story.

9 years, 9 months ago - Dan Selakovich

Oh, one more thing... here in America, you can get HBO through iTunes, online. Maybe that's true where you are. Even if you can't afford it, the first 30 days are free. You can watch all 3 seasons of Project Greenlight and get angry along with me.

9 years, 9 months ago - Alève Mine

Dan I'll need to figure out how to make something representative of something with nothing. It's not trivial. Not sure it's possible: the result is a function of tools used, and can anyone see through that to the core of a personality, have the ability and the goodwill to imagine what a work would become with other means? Btw I've now started watching Hard Eight. The edit at the dice roll in the middle blew me away, so I'll pause the film while I crawl back. Yes I had read about Project Greenlight, though I hadn't realised it was a reality TV show. It's only open to US residents. I would have applied either way. Yes people give advice seen from their life. Like an artist friend who once said to me "Why in the world would you want to have any commercial success?" He never had to.

Nick, yes that's also what one of the producers told me when I said I wanted to direct / act in them. What's one more hat, one could think, but firstly I'm very very bad at fundraising. I've had 3 festival/theatre screenings to date with shorts that I've written, directed, acted in, edited and composed the score for. Not much, but still something. Sure, I'd like to build it over time.

I'ts tomorrow Friday. The coach was attributed: a well-established one. I'll prepare some more. Thanks again. Have a good day.

9 years, 9 months ago - Alève Mine

Nick, Paddy, thanks much. So I'll try and analyse some of those points within the time at hand, and not worry too much about it. It is the first time I get a feedback on that, but a production company (actually two, unless the second one was for another script, I can't remember exactly just now) wanted to make it last year. I didn't let them, because they wouldn't let me direct it, nor act in it. Getting it produced was what I was hoping for with this application. The thought of rolling from writing competition to script coaching to rewrites is not a good one, because I'm not in it to be purely a writer. It's a rather simple story, quickly written, and not commercial at all for once, but if they selected it they probably have suggestions in mind. I can't imagine what these could be. I already have story sketches. I'm likely to climb up the walls for a while. After that I'll look at their suggestions...

9 years, 9 months ago - Dan Selakovich

Aleve, I wrote this beautifully detailed answer this morning with all the right answers (wink), and hit submit. SP threw it into neverland. GAH! so I'll try again, in a much rougher, less perfect way.

How well do you know your script? Really, not a stupid question. Scripts I'd written years ago are barely rememberable. Even ones that were optioned that I thought were drilled into my psyche. But your above answer does help, and hopefully you'll find this advice helpful.

My advice would be to know every single comma and period (Yes, I'm agreeing with Paddy, AGAIN!).

I've kind of been through this. When I was 18, I was nominated for the Sundance Institute (in those early years, you had to be nominated). I met for 3 hours with the rep from there, and if memory serves, the rep was Robert Redford's brother-in-law. It was an absolutely amazing experience, and incredibly beneficial. The better you know your own work, the better the meeting will be. If for example, the analyst says there's a hole in your plot, you might be able to say "Well, that's handled visually here." Which can lead to a whole range of questions like, "do you think I should handle that problem in dialogue?" or "should I expand the visual description?" or any number of ways to go. When I was meeting with the Sundance guy, I had solutions to problems. They were rough, but there. It went from a 'do we want you' meeting, to a creative story meeting. I think he really enjoyed that, and why it went so long. Plus the guy was smart, and knew story, which helped me. I brought along my scene cards, and any note he had on a scene, I wrote down on the corresponding card. He was really impressed with that. In my view, I just wanted the input. In the end, I wasn't chosen because he said my script was too commercial, but he left me with this; "If you're this good at 18, you have to keep writing." It impacted my life considerably.

I feel like I've know you for years, Aleve, so I don't think you're this kind of person, but don't be at all defensive with the analyst. Be open to the suggestions given. Even if you don't agree with them. If he is impressed by you, you may get other writing jobs out of it.

I've also been down the "it's mine and I want to direct." road. Please, I'm begging you not to stick to your guns. I did, and it was stupid. On one of the scripts I optioned, I was contracted to direct. They couldn't raise the money with me attached. Even through a 2nd option. (And in those days, option money was real. You could actually live off of it). If I hadn't been so tight fisted about directing, I would have had a produced script. That is huge! That leads to directing gigs. Please don't put all of your eggs in one script basket like I did. Careers are made one step at a time. If only I knew then what I know now. If someone has offered to produce it, let them. Write another with you attached as director. Once you have a produced script, you have power.

Please Aleve, listen to your American Uncle Dan: if somebody wants to produce something you've written, let them. Get that first film under your belt. Let them ruin it if need be, but let them produce it. I know there are a handful of times when people said "I direct or nothing" and it worked out. But there are bins full of people trying that, and it didn't. I know. I'm one of them. Do what we couldn't. You'll get to direct if you use a stepping stone. In the end, people need to be able to trust you with a shit ton of money. A produced script can do that.

9 years, 9 months ago - Dan Selakovich

Given all that, Aleve, then my suggestion would be to write and make a feature that you can do for nothing. Shoot it on an iPhone if need be. Just make damned sure it's a solid representation of you. It doesn't have to make money (though that would help a lot), but if it is pretty amazing in some way, that can take you to a next step of getting the funding for your current script. To use PT Anderson, his first film was Hard Eight, and absolutely brilliant (and I mean that in the American sense of the word, not the British). He made that for 3 million, but it didn't even break $500,000 at the box office (in the days before piracy!). Still, he's making movies because he's one of the greatest filmmakers in a generation. The thing is, PT Anderson is commenting on his experience. I'm commenting on mine, which is probably the norm. I'm no PT Anderson, that's for sure.

Here's the rub: in our current system, nobody is going to give an unknown 3 mil without amazing people surrounding them and a script 2nd to none. Have you ever seen the HBO series "Project Greenlight"? It gives unknowns a chance to direct their first feature, then documents these new directors making the movie. It's a reality show of sorts. I can't watch it without shaking my head at these directors hanging themselves repeatedly. I'm not saying that YOU are like that, I'm saying that's how the industry sees first time directors. And more often than not, it's true. Hell, I made a living off of that being true.

Anyway, I'll stop now. I truly hope you can get your script made with you directing.

9 years, 9 months ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin

Nobody knows what makes a surefire hit, so they're all terrified of being the person who backs the wrong horse, loses money, so people hedge their bets. Everyone is risk-averse, so they eliminate risk by backing previous winners. At least if they back someone who has a win or two under their belt, they can justify it to a backer as 'they had a track record', nobody looks foolish if it all goes wrong.

This is why Dan is saying ANY success is a good thing. Selling a script helps sell the next one. Sell three scripts and you'll find it much easier to direct your first...because you're a known quantity, an insider, a hedged bet.

9 years, 9 months ago - Dan Selakovich

"One prerequisite is: being sure that recognition as a screenwriter brings trust as a director. How does that work?"

It says somebody liked the script enough to throw millions of dollars at it being produced. That is huge. The industry is all about track records. I have a couple of successful screenwriter friends. They've both been approached by the studio saying "you should direct something." The thing is, they don't want to direct. But look at Tony Gilroy, for example. There are many, many, examples of writers becoming directors. And what do they all have in common? Produced work. Produced work opens doors (unless it's a no-budget failure). In the very first film I edited, the director was let go after his cut was done. It was awful (it's still awful), so the producer said that I would be directing new scenes to make it work, then re-edit the entire thing my way. It went on to make a really decent profit. Now I was somebody that could fix a movie. At first, quite an ego boost, but after 5 years or so, became exhausting. You're always working on films in trouble and you never get a screen credit. But the point being; one film gave me a track record.

If your script is a 50k dollar doable movie, then sure, do it yourself. But if it needs 5 million, a first time director/writer isn't a risk most investors would make. I think those days are long gone unless Scott Rudin is producing. I hope I'm wrong, but I just don't see that much nowadays. You can increase those odds if you have a great feature script and a well directed awarding winning short under your belt, but the odds are still against you heavily. A produced script, a well directed short, and another script ready to go gives you solid street cred that puts you in the running.

9 years, 9 months ago - Alève Mine

Dan, thanks. This one is closer to 50k than 5mio, so I'll really try and do it. But for some other time: how do I reach Scott Rudin?

Paddy, yes unfortunately. A priori reduced risk downside. I don't have a way to prove them wrong in this case.

I'd have to write scripts that I'd just want sell. Not sure the passion would be in it, nor if the effort, and, crucially, the delay that would cause, would add up...

Nick, I'm in an environment where producers' decisions will be based on their evaluation of the likelihood of institutions funding the project, and future projects of theirs. They are likely to take the easiest route, and then it won't be a new director, nor actor. That's the realistic expectation. So I must aim for unrealistic expectation. Yes, the script changes, sometimes on the go as I shoot, because the dynamics imagined, or the location structure, are sometimes not the ones available on set. Then it's that or serious expenses! In fact location topography changes stories so much that I feel the importance of architecture and town planning is underrated in real life. The edit is a whole new world again, indeed.

All very true. I'll try not sabotage the script through second-guessing. And yes, I'm finding it hard to move.

Not sure when I really decided to direct the scripts written, but they are written in a way that looks like the decision was there from the start. The script as a means of getting production rather than a need to have something stripped of directing cues. I had asked the question to Paul Thomas Anderson back in school: how do you know if you should direct your scripts. He said that if you like working with people, why should you let someone else have all the fun with something you put a lot of effort in.

I see what you mean: yes, they are different.

People typically want more of the first thing they (partially based on preconceived ideas) identify you as succeeding with. So when in order to reach one goal, you first have to do something else, beware of doing that other thing too well.

9 years, 9 months ago - Alève Mine

Erratum: the script as a blueprint for the shoot, rather than a means of getting production.