ASK & DISCUSS
INDEXHow/where do I get an LP10?
12 years, 4 months ago - Greg McFarlane King
I have been asked to provide an LP10 with one of my invoices. I understand this is a form which allows self employed people to opt-out of the legal maximum daily working hours. But I haven't been able to find out where I can get one..
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8 years, 2 months ago - Jose Armengol
Hey man, have the same problem today. Did you find out where you can get one?
Regards,
Response from 8 years, 2 months ago - Jose Armengol SHOW
8 years, 2 months ago - John Lubran
This is of course a red herring. The notion that one needs to prove a double negative is persistently attempted by administrative presumption. The minimum wage regulates employees. An employee does not issue invoices. The very issuence of an invoice proves that the issuer is not an employee per se. The administration through its HMRC agency asserts that they alone determine who is self employed, but that's not actual law. HMRC can successfully argue where it's apparent, that a specific self employed status is bogus by evidencing such things as a person having an exclusive employment with a single employer, or working with tools, equipment and other support systems wholly provided by such an employer. But even in these circumstances it's ultimately up to the courts to determine. Sadly most people remain constitutionaly and law learned illiterate and unable or unwilling to assert their rights even in the face of brazen erroneous presumption.
Response from 8 years, 2 months ago - John Lubran SHOW
8 years, 1 month ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin
What you're seeking is a Lorimer Letter, issued free from HMRC Film Unit. It enables the production to know you have demonstrated to HMRC that you're not a 'hidden employee' which was widely abused by people to avoid paying tax/NI or who didn't understand that income tax was payable on freelance earnings. You can get a Lorimer from HMRC Film Unit - see this BECTU page
https://www.bectu.org.uk/advice-resources/tax-guide
Response from 8 years, 1 month ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin SHOW
Response from 8 years, 1 month ago - Parvez Zabier SHOW
8 years, 1 month ago - John Lubran
A Lorimer letter is a handy device in that it might preempt the hassle of going to court. It's a declaration that has a similar affect to an affidavit, though it does not have the legal force of an affidavit. Whilst playing the game according to the rules of the administration is often the better part of valour, those rules are not necessarily actual law. In Actual law, as with an affidavit, your truth is the truth unless disproven; one is what one says one is until disproven. The burden of proof lies with the appellant. Such proof can ultimately only be tested by the courts, not HMRC or any other government agency. This is fundimental stuff and they would rather people don't know it.
Response from 8 years, 1 month ago - John Lubran SHOW
8 years, 1 month ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin
In true legal terms, I've no doubt John is correct BTW. Lorimer himself was indeed taken to court and shown to be truly self-employed http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/1993/25.html. To avoid that impasse/argument again, it's possible to get the letter from the film unit which says they understand you're genuinely self-employed. That letter, rightly or wrongly, is a requirement of most feature productions for anyone who doesn't want to go onto payroll (or contract through a ltd company).
It's free, and production get bored of having to explain over and over and over that without one, you will go onto payroll or they will just hire someone else. Rightly or wrongly, HMRC audit productions for this. It's not a thing to play hardball over, it's easier to hire someone else, and is something you can have on hand for your next job. I know a costume woman who's just about to lose a job because she's insisting that for adverts and shorts and some weeks she did on another low budget feature she's never needed one and refuses to get one now. Production have no choice in this case, she is insisting her way out of a job.
Response from 8 years, 1 month ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin SHOW
8 years, 1 month ago - John Lubran
Paddy is of course absolutely right in that a Lorimer letter is an easy solution whereby everyone can just get on with their jobs. As I suggested, it's the better part of valour. For the most part confirming to these administrative devices works well for practical purposes. However, occasionally in life's complex diversity, it becomes necessary to understand the fundimental principles of Law especially when their machine tries to grind one down. It's speaking softly but carrying a big stick.
Response from 8 years, 1 month ago - John Lubran SHOW