ASK & DISCUSS INDEX

9 years ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin

Gosh, quite a lot of ground to cover, but in short, it has a sensor, it has a video mode, so you can record moving images with it. It probably has a terrible microphone as well, no built-in mic to any camera in the history of the camera has ever been any good, however you could get an external microphone or external sound recorder.

Is it any good? Certainly a whole heap better in terms of quality than your iPhone, but less convenient, so it depends what you want to shoot. As I recall it has the same sensor as the 7D, and same bitrate. IIRC, It'll shoot for upto 12 minutes in between button presses, so is ideal for shooting short-take drama.

The 18-55 refers to the lens, it's a standard basic lens, perfectly good for getting started with. If you find you are using it a lot, the world's your oyster - the body will take any modern Canon (or compatible) lens.

9 years ago - Dan Selakovich

No. It's terrible. Send it to me.

Kidding aside, what Paddy said about camera mics: no truer words have ever been spoken. "Tangerine" was shot with an iPhone 5, so I think you're on solid ground. Tangerine is available on Netflix (at least in the U.S.), so you should take a look and know you've got something very, very, much better.

Invest in a good mic and some memory cards and go make a movie.

9 years ago - Kate Holderness

Thanks so much guys, great advice! I actually have Tangerine ready for viewing this weekend so looking forward to watching!
Just good to know it's half decent before I rip open the box!
Will defo look into an external mic.
I shall try to skill up my brain, matrix-style, this weekend and have a little play with it.

9 years ago - Alwyne Kennedy

Yes, you can. However, it seems the 1200D doesn't have an external mic socket, so you would have to record audio separately.

In the US the 1200D is called the t5. It shoots video pretty much to the same quality as the higher spec t5i. Here's a youtube video shot on the t5i using the same lens that you have - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0vQK5o6TSw

9 years ago - Kate Holderness

Thanks Alwyne, yes the T5 thing was confusing me as I kept seeing that, thanks for explaining! I can't view the video in the UK :( I'll have a hunt on YouTube for some others filmed on the same set up. Thank you!

9 years ago - Alwyne Kennedy

?? I'm in the UK and I can view that video. I'm not using any software to defeat country restrictions. Not using a proxy server. I'm on plain old Virgin cable, with my ISP's server based in SE London.

9 years ago - Kate Holderness

Hmmmm that's weird - maybe because I'm on my iPad? I'll try on laptop...

9 years ago - Kate Holderness

Yep that worked! Thanks for that Alwyne, the film looks great, didn't realise I'd be able to get such good footage from something that's been rolling around in a cupboard for a year!

In terms of microphone, does anyone have any recommendations? Would I need a boom mic or is one that sits on the camera good enough for now? Say for example shooting dialogue indoors and outdoors?

9 years ago - Alwyne Kennedy

Rule: get the mic as close to the actor as possible, which rules out on-camera mics. Besides, your camera doesn't have an external mic socket so mounting a mic on the camera is silly. Yes, use a boom mic, or radio mics. Use a Zoom or Tascam recorder for your audio. They are relatively cheap. You'll have to sync in post, though, so clapperboards required.

9 years ago - Kate Holderness

Thanks Alwyne! Ahhh didn't realise it didn't have a mic socket....yeah that would be silly. :) great advice, thank you! Gonna spend the weekend forcing my brain into 2016. Thanks!

9 years ago - Alwyne Kennedy

As for boom mic recommendations... cheap would be a Rode NTG-1 (requires the recorder to provide 48V phantom power). Pick them up, used, on ebay for around £90 I think. Good Audio-Technica and Sony boom mics often go oddly cheap, used, on ebay. Then there's the Sennheser range - the ME66 with K6 power module goes for around £180 on ebay, used. The advantage of that mic is that it can power itself via an inserted AA battery. Same with the Rode NTG-2 (not the NTG-1 that I mentioned before). As for recorders, I used to have a Zoom HN4 but found battery life was very short and I had to buy an external battery pack for it. So maybe go for the Tascam 70d instead. They sell for around £150, used, on ebay. But, of course, buying used kit on ebay is a risk you might not want to take.

There'll be loads of reviews of the Tascam 70d on youtube.

9 years ago - Kate Holderness

Thanks so much Alwyne, amazing advice!! Will look into all of those. You've explained so much that was confusing me - simple things like I now understand what the "recorder" is for....as my camera doesn't have the mic socket, I need something external to "record" the sound. Aha!!!!! I feel less like an idiot already!!!!!

9 years ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin

Or if you want to start a little lower, cashwise, frankly a Zoom Handy HN2 just outside of shot will give you far better sound than anything onboard the camera. Even an iPhone just outside of shot will give you better audio than the onboard mic. You will learn why and how to use a clapperboard to sync the audio (although you can use phone apps as basic boards!)

But before all that, you need to get to know the camera. Start today, get it charged up, and go and shoot a bunch of vignettes, from light to dark, inside and out, learn how the camera handles, see how wobbly it is to tilt or pan, and how the IS function on the lens helps/causes issues, look at how to light a shot. Time spent learning the device will pay more dividends than any money spent on extras are this stage - there's an industry in selling frills, the "one more thing you need...", whereas Hitchcock had such basic kit compared with what you have today, and he did alright ;-)

9 years ago - Kate Holderness

Haha too true Paddy! Great advice, thank you!
Going to go get me some memory cards today so I can have a play. Been having a watch of the Rode YouTube advice video on mics too so I'm starting to grasp the basics (or the BASIC basics!).
How would I use an iPhone? That sounds interesting for now? Record the sound as a video then synch later?

9 years ago - Alwyne Kennedy

Rode also do a couple of cheap mics that are suited to smartphones. The Videomic Me and the Videomic Pro. The Me plugs straight in. However, you could use it with a mic extension cable - strap it to a broom handle and you'd have yourself a basic boom mic for recording audio to your smartphone. The Pro has a standard mini-jack socket for a cable, again allowing it to be boomed. See a review here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKBOxUm5hHA

9 years ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin

>>Record the sound as a video then synch later?<<

There's probably more than one sound recording app (I all Android, and I'm spoiled for choice, so assume there's similar). Used with one of the mics Alwyne mentions is ideal, or you can just try using the (pretty poor but better than nothing) built-in mic - it's still better than trying to use the built-in camera mic!

But in essence, yes, that's exactly the workflow. It's what clapper boards are for - so you can sync easily.

9 years ago - Kate Holderness

Sorry for slow reply....
Guys....you are geniuses. (Geniuii?) So for messing around to start with that would mean I wouldn't need a recorder wouldn't it?? AWESOME!

9 years ago - Kate Holderness

Just had a thought.....do you think it'd be worth selling this one and using the cash towards one with a mic socket? Would that be more economical than buying an extra fancy recorder further down the line?

9 years ago - Kate Holderness

Nah, ignore that, I'm getting ahead of myself! I'll stick with this one and use what I have. Thanks so much guys, you've been a great help.....and thanks for making me excited about something that had previously scared the hell out of me! Im actually enjoying learning about leads and memory cards.....who knew?!

9 years ago - Alwyne Kennedy

One thing I need to point out - on my Galaxy S7 Smartphone, the mic socket doubles as a headphone socket. If you use a mic cable, your cable plug will have to be suited to that if your phone also has the same system. I've just sent off for a cheap adapter to allow me to use standard 3.5mm terminals with my phone. See it here: http://tinyurl.com/hupav2x

I

9 years ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin

Just start today. Don't hold on for another thing, for selling the camera etc., just get going.

If you enjoy using it and get into getting the best from your shots then there's plenty of time to upgrade down the road - there will ALWAYS be another, better model available, it's easy to put it off. Just get going.

The controls are pretty common across all the Canon cameras, look on youtube if confused or for ideas. You'll certainly find good information on the basics.

My top tip - never zoom whilst filming, set the lens 'length' (ie 18mm, 55mm, or whatever inbetween) before you start recording. And buy/make a small beanbag which will allow you to prop the camera at whatever angle you need and remain steady. If you find you're really enjoying things, your next purchase is probably a tripod ;-)

9 years ago - Kate Holderness

Thanks guys, amazing advice once again. Ah ok yes Alwyne I think that's the case with iPhones too so will keep that in mind. And yep, Paddy, I just need to stop faffing and get out there and get going! Great bean bag tip too!! Thanks guys, thanks for making me excited to get shooting and not killing my newbie dream! ;) ;)

9 years ago - Dan Selakovich

Wow, this thread blew up! As for sound, you can use the camera mic as a sync source using a syncing app. I think the app is called DualEyes. You record dialogue with a clean source, like the iPhone suggestion, as well as the camera mic. Then use the app to sync the clean source to the camera source in your editing program. It works like magic by matching the sound waveforms, replacing the dirty camera sound with the clean sound. Then you won't need a "clap" and have to sync each shot manually (BUT a clapper board is still highly recommended for a crisp sync point to help the app along).

I know you're probably feeling buried with all of the advice, but a search of Dualeyes, dual system (or sometimes called "double system") sound for video will get you going with really simple articles on recording and syncing sound. Also, I don't think Dual Eyes is the only app that can do this, just FYI. Oh, and I agree with Paddy about everything, as always.

9 years ago - Alwyne Kennedy

Nope, Dan, it's called Pluraleyes - https://www.redgiant.com/products/pluraleyes

I thought about suggesting recording a track with the in-camera mic to aid with syncing if using Pluraleyes, then decided not to because that kind of thing is for the future. For now she needs to open the box and press the record button.

9 years ago - Kate Holderness

I have now opened the box....set it to charge AND attached the strap. All by myself. Progress guys!! ;) trying to locate the memory cards I know I have rolling around in another cupboard.....starting to think I may have an entire film crew in these cupboards somewhere.
Thanks so much Dan, that app sounds awesome. I have Filmic Pro on my iPhone, does that do anything in terms of sound? I think I read somewhere that you can adjust levels whilst filming etc?
Really appreciate all your advice!

9 years ago - Alwyne Kennedy

Yes, Filmic Pro has sound recording features, but I think you would also need to record vid at the same time, which would fill up your storage very quickly. So get a dedicated sound recording app. Haven't checked any of them out, but here's a page of someone's recommendations: http://www.iphoneness.com/iphone-apps/best-voice-recorder-iphone-apps/

9 years ago - Kate Holderness

Sorry Alwyne, just saw this. Ah yes that would run the battery down loads; thanks for the recs, I'll check them out!

9 years ago - Alwyne Kennedy

It's not the battery that would particularly run down, it's your phone's data storage that would fill up. Video makes for much larger files than audio, so if you don't need the video, record audio alone.

9 years ago - Dan Selakovich

Alwyne, here's the difference between the two apps: DualEyes differs from PluralEyes because rather than being a plugin, it’s a stand alone app and is designed with just one task in mind, to sync DSLR footage with the audio recorded on a separate device.

Sure, she should open the box and get started. But Kate should also have her questions answered and also know what's available before she shoots something more serious. These things may not be important now, but they will be. For now, use the camera mic. For now, monkey around and learn those simple workflows, then add things one step at a time. At this point, Kate doesn't know what she doesn't know, and the fact that she's asking is a wonderful thing. Good on her.

A lesson I learned early on, is that you talk to those that come after you in the process. Even when working with actual film and single stripe, I still talked to the sound house, the negative cutters, et al to find out how they preferred my work to be delivered. Now it's even more important, since the options are almost limitless. Next she'll be asking which editing software to use, so I'll answer that now: Lightworks.

9 years ago - Alwyne Kennedy

Ah, Dan, I didn't know that Dualeyes was also a thing. I thought you had mis-remembered PluralEyes. I think you did say you were vague on it. As for Kate having her questions answered, I did strive to answer them, then agreed with Paddy that she should just get going and ask questions when she needs more specific knowledge.

9 years ago - Kate Holderness

Thanks for all your advice guys, I appreciate all your help! Especially since I know I'm asking such basic ass questions :) Had to order some memory cards as couldn't find mine so will let you know how I get on next week! :)

9 years ago - Laszlo Agocs

Hello Kate, you should check this hungarian movie (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3898506/), it was fully recorded with DSLR cameras.

9 years ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin

Oh absolutely - Canon DSLR's have been used widely for low-budget stuff. An episode of 'House' was filmed on the 5D (the big sister of your camera - bigger sensor, but finishing to the same 44Mbps), and the Canon XF300 is basically the same internals in a better form factor.

9 years ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin

Dan, see what you're saying and mostly agree in the general case, but Kate has had this device in a box for a couple of years, it's completely alien. I am hoping that by getting it out, waving it around, and not expecting anything much from the first uses, to lose the fear. Sometimes we forget just how intimidating it all is in the early days! Answers before you need them, too far ahead in the learning chain, can be off-putting leaving the learner overwhelmed and as if it's all much tricker than the reality of making people say words and pointing a device at them. How many film crew have degrees in their discipline? Who cares! It's vocational, it's skills you build on.

Losing the fear means feeling safe to experiment. Experimentation is when the questions will come. That's when the answers will make sense and be useful.

Actually I agree that there's value to laying out a rough pathway, showing a commonly trodden route, but I'm always also aware that there will be whole workflows and results I've never seen or imagined. Maybe a resurgence in silent film, maybe 80's non-sync pop promos will return, maybe a million things - I hope they do. I hope people will not feel put off from experimenting by the common path. A lot of films are derivative. Many give us the exact same thing as the one before. We like that, it's reassuring and makes regular money. Occasionally someone will break out a whole new style that creates buzz and then becomes part of the cannon.

This is why I'm keen for Kate (and others in similar positions) to throw caution to the wind and before getting caught up in details to build up a head of steam of enthusiasm and possibility. She may be the one who invents/discovers/popularises something wonderful, and that means she can get rich and employ me. ;)

9 years ago - Dan Selakovich

I agree, Paddy. Perhaps my similar suggestions got lost in my mess: "For now, use the camera mic. For now, monkey around and learn those simple workflows, then add things one step at a time." Or "I know you're probably feeling buried with all of the advice..." or "Oh, and I agree with Paddy about everything, as always."

She should heed that last sentence!

9 years ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin

Haha! Yes, looks like we're all on similar songsheets :)

9 years ago - Daniel Cormack

Go for it! Make a film! Make mistakes. Fail better next time. Practical advice here worth heeding.

9 years ago - Matt Dede

Can we star in your mini film? :-) We promise not be too taxing :-)

8 years, 11 months ago - Tony Oldham

Yes, & the standard kit lens is sufficient. It teaches you to be more creative as I've shot an entire feature on a D600. If you care about sound, you must must record that separately. Obviously you also need decent edit software also to handle the footage.