ASK & DISCUSS INDEX

10 years, 6 months ago - Marlom Tander

There are sharks.

There are also dreamers. People who claim to have money, but don't. They can get very expensive very fast in petrol and coffee for meetings. The tell tale sign here - they are TOO agreeable, affable and understanding, (because they're having fun, not considering an investment).

You want to be sure that you don't start paying for lawyers and accountants until you KNOW that the investor has the money and is serious. Serious investors will be happy to prove bona fides once you get to the stage of saying "right, so now I need to pay 2k to my lawyer to make this happen. So, first up, the DD, as a formality...".

A good general test is "if I were him, would I invest in me?". In 99% of cases anyone willing to fund a film project wants one of two things, if not both :-

a) A profit.
b) An audience.

Profit motivated deals are simple - if the guy says he wants to make money and isn't asking you how this will make money, probably not serious, UNLESS he's in the marketing/distribution side and brings that to the table. (In which case he's focused on your budget and is it realistic).

Audience related is different. If an investor is issue focused, "I want to give 20K to fund a film about something which I care about" then the money might have no strings, but they want to be sure that it will be seen. Expect them to ask about that - "can we get a charity on board so they can use it?", "could a bit of it go viral?", "do you think the BBC will show it?" because in general "a few people at a film festival" won't cut it.

Have fun.

10 years, 6 months ago - Ryan Watson

Thanks all, sound advice from all of you and it's been a bit of a confidence boost. This community is a brilliant resource.

The onus is on us to get back to him so I see no obligation to hurry my research at all. Paddy, your question about 'what did we do better than everyone else' - I could underline that three times over as it's exactly the thing I'm finding so odd about all of this - a web series is pretty much the extent of our published work, and web series are frankly ten a penny. More generally, we have a fair audience size on YouTube, and they were loyal through the whole first series (we're shooting a second series to tie up loose ends and introduce more intrigue for our viewers), but it was a learning experience before it was an investment opportunity.

I will take all of this advice on board and intrepidly go forth with my investigation...

Cheers

10 years, 6 months ago - Richard Anthony Dunford

I had something similar years ago where someone contacted me out of the blue who'd seen my script online and wanted to option it. I immediately thought this must be a scam. I googled them, checked their IMDB's (the producer had been on some pretty huge films) and when I went to meet them they were the same people they were claiming to be so it is possibly these investors are legit.

But... basically as the others said if they ask for money from you it's a scam. No grey area. Is a scam every time.

10 years, 6 months ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin

Ryan, you're right to be cautious - there are a LOT of absolute sharks out there.

Does the investor's story add up? Where did he see your work? How did he get in touch? Why single you out for his money and attentions? What did you do better than the thousands of other wannabe filmmalers? Which other young creatives has he backed? What do they say about him? What did they give up in return? It'll either feel right or something inside you will have a feeling. Listen to that feeling. I've met some very affable complete shits in this industry.

If he's legit, he will be straight with you about what's in it for him. If ANY money, rights, etc goes the other direction ('I need £500 from you first to unlock the loan' / 'Just spend the night with my friend' / 'just make us a sample promo video for xyz to show my investors' / whatever) it's dodgy. If he's legit, he'll understand, explain everything, and not be offended that you're asking intelligent questions like 'OK, so what's in it for your investors?'.

In the world of real money, people are wary of each other, and check each other out. Get the company/individual's name and do a bunch of real research. PM me if you want a hand. Might be legit, might be full of it. Just I think you're feeling something may be fishy which is why you've posted in the first place, and there's a real chance you're right. Some people actively prey on aspiration.

10 years, 6 months ago - Vasco de Sousa

If you're weary, think about other reasons. Like Paddy said, if they ask for money, that's a warning sign.

The lack of a website isn't really something I'd worry about. Websites haven't existed for that long, and perhaps they don't want to wade through lots of terrible projects that a website would attract.

And, having a website is no reassurance either, anyone can make one for little or no money. I know kids in primary and secondary school with film and game company websites (and some are pretty good looking too.)

I have seen scam artists (mainly "writing agents") and many of these have very, very nice websites.

Quentin Tarantino and Christopher Nolan don't even have email addresses, last time I checked.

There are other criteria I use. One is I don't tend to trust people who don't use their own picture for their profile picture, or those who don't fill out profiles. However, I guess some of these people on SP have reasons not to have a proper profile. I met an editor on here who just didn't bother with his online appearance because he was busy servicing corporate clients. When I met him in person, I could tell a lot more about him than his online presence would ever say.

To repeat what Paddy said:

1. An investor should not expect you to pay for anything to them. The writer doesn't pay the producer and doesn't pay an agent. There's a certain way the money flows.

2. An investor should be selective. I get worried when people are interested too quickly.

In the end, however, you use your instinct. And, ultimately, you may decide to take a risk that will pay off, or may discover that it's just not worth it.

My last film's stunt coordinator doesn't have a website, and he was brilliant. We had a great sequence with his help, and I didn't get hurt. It was a challenge to get hold of him, but it was worth it.

I guess all these people are over thirty-five. Maybe things are changing.

As for lawyers, I wonder if anyone on this list has any recommendations for UK based entertainment lawyers? Thanks.

Best of luck.

10 years, 6 months ago - Ryan Watson

Hi all, thanks again for all your advice which is gratefully received. Seems like there's lots of ways to go and things to think about, and we're pretty sure of where we're going to go next.

George, I think we'd probably hire the assistance of a legal professional if talks start to get serious, but I guess there's no harm in starting to search for someone now.

Vasco, sure, lack of a website might not be a major flag, but the only contact we have at the moment is through Facebook, so no telephone number or postal address - which again might or might not be a sticking point, but... uh... you know... seems a bit sly. Then, like you say, that might be for a good reason.

Not to worry. I've got plenty of options and a fair bit of time to do some research - if all goes well or indeed not, I'll let you know. Again, this support from you all is more than I thought would come from my question, from a new guy no less, so thank you!

Best
Ryan

10 years, 6 months ago - Lee 'Wozy' Warren

My only thought to add to what Paddy has already mentioned would be to get a film lawyer, sourced by you and not them, to agree and approve all documents that they ask you to sign. And let's face it, they would need various documents signed for rights, agreements, funding etc.

10 years, 6 months ago - George Brian Glennon

As Lee says, you need a lawyer retained by you that deals with the film business on a regular basis. Anyone serious about having a real career in the creative arts needs to have a specialist lawyer dealing with whatever area you're in, as part of your team.

It's never too early in your career to find that person or firm.