ASK & DISCUSS INDEX

10 years, 11 months ago - Shahid 'Shez' Hussain

actually*

10 years, 11 months ago - James Martin

To add to the above really - if you're going to do a feature and it's your first feature, I'd suggest having a script of at least 100 pages which is absolutely riveting, perfect, with nothing you could possibly lose.

Because, there WILL be scenes you can lose and even if you only lose them in the edit you don't want a film any shorter than 80 minutes - otherwise you don't have much of a feature at all.

Another thing to consider is the biggest danger behind hiring people on expenses - they have no commitment to you beyond their honour. You can NOT put someone under contract for expenses, or a percentage - I certainly wouldn't agree to one and in the UK it is illegal anyway.

So if you are crewing or casting, build in some backups (if you're always in the same location, make sure it is a location that you can't possibly lose) - don't write every scene with the same three actors, you only need one to drop out or be sick and you're done. Same for crew - even when you've made your choices, have a second choice ready to go.

And be realistic - don't put an ad out telling people this is going to be great for their showreels, etc etc... because you probably hired them on the basis of their showreel anyway. Be honest about yourself, your budget, your intentions, etc... that is always the best way.

Oh, and you may find it is much cheaper to shoot outside of London - I have done this with many low budget films and when you're shooting longer than a week, the cost savings of being out of London are massive.

10 years, 11 months ago - afia nkrumah

I agree with Matt and Paddy. The most important part of making your feature debut is the script. The script is what will attract people to work with you and make it worth doing or not. Your short film, is well produced but the story and vision is very very derivative of pulp fiction, without the snappy, funny surprising dialogue. What makes Pulp fiction memorable is the script, it leaps off the screen, grabs you by the throat and takes you for a hell of a ride and it showed us hit men in a way we had never seen before.

So many filmmakers are in a rush to make a feature just so they can say they have made a feature. This is why so many features are luck lustre, derivative and boring. Your first feature has to come from you, has to be original and authentic to you, a story that nobody but you could have written and directed. That takes time, and effort and deep consideration. I would advise you to spend more time thinking about creating a story you absolutely NEED to tell that will move or entertain or show your audience something they have never seen before. When you have that story, then you will be ready to make a feature and you will attract what you need to make a good film without compromising on time, budget or anything else.

10 years, 11 months ago - Dan Selakovich

Absolutely, what Paddy said! If someone came to me with "Twilight", I would have called them idiots. Well, guess the joke is on me. Besides, writing doesn't cost anything. And even if everybody hates it, the only way to get better is to write, so you're one step closer. Nothing you do is a waste. Nothing.

10 years, 11 months ago - Marlom Tander

Reread what you posted, and understand what it implies :-

a) Crowdfunding - they don't call them "campaigns" for nothing. Are you good at marketing?

b) Minimal crew - OK, but how will that impact on the quality? You're sure it won't?

c) Minimal cast - always good for the budget, but can the story cope? It takes writing of the highest order to make a very small cast work over 90 mins. Are you really Anthony Shaffer (Sleuth) or David Mamet (Glengarry Glenross). If so, great, if not, find one :-)

d) Two week shoot. So your cast, unknowns, hence cheap, are all one take wonder geniuses.

I think you've got a big ambition, and you might be able to make it work IF you start with a script that really works within the practical limits you face. And then get everything else right :-)

good luck

10 years, 11 months ago - Daniel Johnson

Hey if you wanna do it then do it. Have a blast! Make art!

10 years, 11 months ago - Shahid 'Shez' Hussain

Hello, Everyone.

Wow, great response to this question. Thank you.

Ideally i would love to meet you all over drinks and chat face to face, but hey.
I will keep it short and to the point.

Afia - I would’ve agreed with you a year ago about how i’d like my first feature to be totally original and authentic. But now I’m thinking ‘experience'. Once i have enough of it, then i can get to my
original style of storytelling (honestly, i really do have my own style, :)).

Matt - this short was an experiment, and my intention was never to hide the fact its derivative of
pulp fiction hence the obvious set ups. And yes i do have a blue print for the feature. But is it good? Dunno mate.

Duncan - I want to do it purely for experience. And i agree it would have to be an awesome script.
Also thanks for the link.

Daniel - i like your attitude brother.

Marlom - i too re-read your first line. glad you got it ;)

Paddy - thank you sir for your words of wisdom. I will be re reading it again and again. Definitely be taking your points on board.

Oh and on the subject of actors i think the cast of 'hired guns' did a great job. I think they made it better than what it actual was, just my opinion.

Lots to reflect on. Thanks.

Kind regards,

Shez

10 years, 11 months ago - Matt Jamie

As Paddy says, do you really have a 90 minute film? If your film was written as a short I would question whether it had the material in it to make a feature. If you made the short from a scene from a longer script then maybe you already have the ideas to make it worth pursuing.
Looking at your short I'd say a) well done for the short, it's well produced and looks good. Sounds good. Well lit. Edited well. So you have the skills to put something together as a film. But b) the script doesn't have anything in it which makes me want to see more. It's Tarrantino on a budget. 2 guys "Mr Something" - in suits, talking about nothing (replacing Burger King menus with anal bleaching), looking for a suitcase (I said to myself ' please don't let there be a yellow glow from inside the case'... There was). So I would say if you can write a 90 min script from this which isn't just chat about porn, mysogyny, and violence against women in a sub-Tarrantino style, it might be worth all the stress mentioned by the others.

10 years, 11 months ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin

Whoa, you guys are all being so lovely about me... and I totally appreciate it ;-). I'm free from around March if anyone wants to book me! In turn I always will read anything Marlom or Dan have to say. I usually agree and invariably learn something!

There are some great tips from everyone here, is great to hear you're listening to what people are saying. You don't have to agree, but making sure you know what you agree/disagree with and why is important to finding your shape as a filmmaker.

For instance, on my first day on site for my most recent job the bonder ambushed me to tell me I couldn't make this film on this budget. I knew I could, but where I could have just become defensive, I worked it all through with him. We discussed it for hours, he was still not convinced, but I knew the director well, and had done plenty of prep in advance. I in turn listened to why he thought it would hit problems, some of his concerns were absolutely valid, thankfully mostly mitigated by some different ways of working. By the end of the shoot he was asking me to produce his next movie for him, based on his life story. We learnt from each other because we were both able to listen and appraise the value of each others experience.

Nobody knows it all, but the smarter ones will listen to what others might have to teach them whether younger, older, or just a fresh set of eyes with new ideas. By all means reject every bit of advice you've been given, just weigh it up for yourself before you do ;)

10 years, 11 months ago - Duncan Roe

Hi Shahid,

"is it worth investing my time and energy into turning this short into a 90 minute feature?"

Really depends what you want out of it: critical acclaim / profit / experience?

Let's assume it's all three. Firstly I think you may want to work on figuring out your own style of writing. It's ok to rip off other styles but straight up copying Tarantino isn't going to work. It worked for Troy Duffy in 1999 but it wont work for you in 2014 unless you really put your own spin on it. Critically speaking though you really need to be moving well away from this kind of style, Blue Ruin is a good example of what seems to get the critics going on the low budget end of things.

Secondly if you want to sell the film you're still going to have to tick some boxes. Good actors, good script and a great DOP. In regards to the script you really need to find someone who can be your sounding board and give you feedback (not your mum or your best friend who's an actor who wants to be in your film). Really you should pay a professional script analyst, there are lots out there, I would recommend Philip Shelley http://www.script-consultant.co.uk/.

Thirdly you can definitely shoot a feature in less than 2 weeks. Depends on how technically complicated it is. For example if you have aspirations to shoot on a high end digital cinema camera like the Alexa but you don't have the budget to shoot for two weeks, you might want to consider cutting down on the amount of shots and setups and schedule a weeks shoot, or even 2 or 3 days (it can be done). Alternatively if you want more shots and setups then you might want to consider FS700/Black Magic - you might be able to stretch to F55 if you have the budget.

At the end of the day it always starts with script. If you have no connections and no financial backing the only way you're going to shoot a good feature length film is starting with a great script. That takes time so I would start small and set yourself daily goals to work towards that great script.

Good luck

10 years, 11 months ago - Jan Caston

If there's one thing I've learned about making film - of whatever length - it is:

If you don't give it a go, you will never know.

It's all about confidence. Go for it! Be prepared for anything. Be humble. Ask advice. Learn, learn, learn on the job and, if at all possible, enjoy the experience. If you are going to become a feature film-maker, you have to make the feature. Good luck!

10 years, 11 months ago - Dan Selakovich

If you want to make a feature, I'd think of something else besides this short. It's perfectly OK to steal from other filmmakers. Tarantino does an amazing job at stealing from others. It's NOT ok to copy other filmmakers, which is what you've done here. Tarantino steals, and then makes it his own. You've also misunderstood Tarantino. Think of this Hitchcock quote: “There is no terror in the bang, only in the anticipation of it.” - Alfred Hitchcock. Tarantino is a master at this. All of that small talk in his films comes with an underlying tension. You've got two guys in suits talking with no tension. You only have the "bang" and none of the anticipation. You've copied without knowing enough to copy. That's dangerous. As an exercise, try re-editing your short to add anticipation.

"Spun" was shot in 10 days with some amazing actors and few locations, and that's what you kind of need to shoot that quickly. The blond actor in your film could use some help. Do you have time to help him on a 2 week shoot?

Whenever I do a budget, I start with hard costs. To me, that is food. You can't ask people to work for free or near free, and not feed them well. That means a proper film catering company and a minimum of $20 a plate. (Maybe London is more or less, but you get my point). Then move to post. Yes, you can get deals on a mixing stage, but even a deal is going to cost you. You're not going to get a mixing stage and two re-recording mixers for nothing. Filmmakers never think of post, even experienced ones, sometimes. Those are hard costs for the most part. Do you think you can grade a film in 2 days? Think again. Yes, you can do this shit in your living room, but it will look and sound like you did it in your living room.

Here's your problem: you want to do a film that promises action with no action. Action is nearly impossible to do on a shoe-string. I love "My Dinner With Andre". Do you have the skill to film 2 guys talking at a table for 90 mins? I sure don't, and I've been at this since 1978. In a one room film, that's what you've got, essentially. 2 guys talking.

If you want to do Tarantino, I'd suggest looking at "Inglorious Basterds". It is chalk full of what Hitchcock called "the bomb under the table scene." You've got 2 people talking, but there's a bomb under the table. When do you show the bomb? How to you create that tension? Think of the Jews under the floorboards that opens the film. The pastry scene with the Jewish girl in hiding that now owns a movie theatre. The missing shoe scene. The basement bar scene... it is FULL of the anticipation that Hitchcock was so amazing at. And of course, Tarantino had Sally Menke as an editor. That ain't hay.

If you want to do a feature, just be sure you are ready to do a feature. Desire is absolutely necessary, but it isn't enough. Doing a film for nothing takes experience. A lot of it. 99% of films made don't get a distribution deal. That's not an exaggeration. You need a great script that's not a copy. To attract great actors, it has to be a fresh take on something. "Reservoir Dogs" was taken from a Chinese film, but it was Tarantino's take on that film.

I'm glad you're taking Paddy's advice to heart. He knows what he's talking about!

10 years, 11 months ago - Susi Arnott

Really sorry to have clicked on the link and watched the short, because I'd love to be encouraging.
But to me it was pointlessly nasty, shallow and derivative. If you want to make another, longer film - pay big attention to Paddy's posting above and especially the first paragraph.

10 years, 11 months ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin

One thing to consider is if it's a 90' story (with 'B'-stories to push it along), or going to end up as a really long short (if you get my drift). I'm generally encouraging of people to make a feature, but that's because it's a different set of skills needed in order to write, budget, cast and crew it, learning about pacing etc in the edit.

Place to start is to check the script works and works well, then budget it based on realistic numbers (2-day favours are easy to get, 2 weeks really hard as that's some people's entire holiday from work!), what is the catering, travel budget etc going to be? Multiply heads by actual costs and add a bit, it adds up fast and you just can't do pizza more than twice a week. You will need taxis if you're doing long days.

It is possible to shoot a feature in a fortnight if it's in a single location - but that can make for a deadly dull film, so your script needs to anticipate this. A 'fortnight' can actually be 16 days, Saturday through to three Sundays time), which is actually very close to the 18 days you get from 3 weeks. It's absolutely brutal though, there will be fights and fallings out with everyone so exhausted. But the reality of film is so far from glamorous!

So your script is awesome and budget realistic, can you raise that money? Crowdfunding isn't free money, it's hard work. To raise a grand you pay maybe £100 in fees and promise another £300 in rewards, so you're only seeing 60p/£ - plus all the time it takes to arrange and post out rewards. I've got experienced producer friends who've done huge campaigns to get just £15k (which goes nowhere when you have real costs). You'll work so hard on your campaign you'll forget about the real work ahead making the film! But if you convince people to back you, hurrah! Then you make the feature length version of your film, and good luck to you!

10 years, 11 months ago - Shahid 'Shez' Hussain

Jan - You sir have the right attitude.
“If you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always gotten. ” - Anthony Robbins

Peter - "Just you and a couple of mates probably are not going to cut it”
Really? oh my god, thank you for the wake up call. I thought it was as simple as picking up an iPhone and just point and shoot at my dentist mate and that would be it.
Damn, to think of all the wasted years of college and University education. and working on several professional productions.
*sips coffee*

10 years, 11 months ago - Peter Spencer

Blue Ruin is fantastic and cost nothing in real terms -£100,000 and had a great script and the perfect actor for it. We just shot a 90 minute feature in five and weeks and it was a push to get it done on time, plus everyone had to be fed, there had to be insurance, auditioned 170 actors, source crew.... Just you and a couple of mates probably are not going to cut it. The occasional really good film can be shot in two weeks - ANOTHER EARTH, in which the crew was the director/cameraman and his friend who was the gaffer, and MONSTERS of course. But these are rarities with really well worked out stories and characters.