ASK & DISCUSS INDEX

8 years, 5 months ago - Mark Wiggins

Yes, of course its worthwhile; if you want to. The problem you had the first time is why you need a proper DOP.

8 years, 5 months ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin

How about taking the lessons from this project and applying them to the next? You can go back and reshoot this one if you run out of ideas and scripts in a couple of years with a lot more experience behind you and make a better job of it than you could right now anyway!

Too dark? That could be a stylistic choice of course, or a dodgy camera, or maybe it'll grade out. I'm guessing you didn't have a reference monitor, maybe just for positioning rather than levels during the shoot? Mind you most people don't seem to know how to set up a monitor these days anyway, so it could be a limitation of the crew. £1000 doesn't get you a lot of experience TBH! Anyway, have you tried wrestling it through a regrade? It might be that the detail is lost forever, but if you saw it on the monitor it might be there in the noisy bits. Can you go back to the source footage? Can you tell from a still taken out of the video stream if you can brighten it and find a little more detail? If it's the in the source footage, you don't need to reshoot, probably do need to re-ingest but may be able to use the same EDL before grading brighter. Sometimes people using editing software may not understand the implications of different codecs, which is why ingesting again might be helpful!

8 years, 5 months ago - Lee 'Wozy' Warren

Move on. Make the next film. Take the lessons from the first film and use them on the next. Making the same film over and over again is a waste of time. After a while, you'll have a few films made but they'll just be different quality versions of the same thing. And then you'll only ever be able to use the best of the ones you made. So you've wasted time, money and energy. Put those things into the next film.

8 years, 5 months ago - Nathalie Hickson

Hi David, It would be interesting to see the film if poss. Shame too dark. Just thinking if you could reedit it or something.

8 years, 5 months ago - Mark Wiggins

Could be monitor but then I'm from a generation where the only monitors we had were video taps on film cameras. I strongly believe that if a DOP can't light a set and expose it correctly without a monitor, they shouldn't be calling themselves a DOP. Its what Meters are for. Call me old fashioned. Couldn't be a camera problem, but this shows why you should test all your gear before you shoot.

8 years, 5 months ago - David Roberts

If anyone would like to see the film go here:

http://blackdeathsorbet.wixsite.com/thecheatandgod/the-film

Password: Dream

All fairness to the DOP he did know his stuff and I don't think it was anything to do with a lack of skill or knowledge.

8 years, 5 months ago - Mark Wiggins

I'd say, if I'd shot it I would have pumped up the fill a bit and gone for a less severe lighting ratio but that's just me. In terms of cinematography I think its fine. May be a bit dark for the subject matter but then again, that's me. I think you could do a lighter version in the grade but that depends on what the origianl files are like, how compressed they are etc as that will determine how far you can push things in the grade before they start to fall apart.

8 years, 5 months ago - Simon Bolton Gabrielsen

David. For all that you've got a lot of emotion invested in the project, it's almost never worth re-making a film. You could do all the work a second time round and something else won't be quite right. In this game, if you're going backwards, you're not going forwards. Chalk it up to experience and make something better.

On the festivals thing, I've had films in over a hundred festivals, including significant ones. And I've seen good films submitted to dozens of events and not get a single hit. You got lucky with that first acceptance, which is great. But it's frankly completely normal to get waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more rejections than acceptances. If you have a REALLY strong film, the ratio might be as good as five to one. If you got it seen once, you may get it seen again, but at least you made a film that worked in some respects and you can claim one festival success.

I don't often give advice on these things, because it's subjective and who needs it, but in this case I have no hesitation. Move on and move up.

8 years, 5 months ago - Lee 'Wozy' Warren

Get rid of that annoying background. It's completely distracting from watching the film...

8 years, 5 months ago - Paul Campion

Learn from the experience and make the next film better. The writing is good, so you have a good calling card for the next short, which should attract a more talent on the technical side.

Maybe next time put together a set of moodboards for the look you're after. Spend more time with the DOP before hand discussing how you and he would like to light it. And if you think something is wrong on set, such as it's too dark, then as the director you should step in and ask for more light. You can always grade something darker in post, but you can't grade something brighter if there's no detail in the blacks.

Your writing is good, so you should easily be able to find a really good more experienced DOP next time. I checked your credits and your DOP doesn't have any camera credits, he's a DIT/Colourist/Actor/Editor in that order. That's already way too many hats to be wearing and having your DOP edit the film means he'll be too married to his footage. A separate editor will bring fresh eyes to the film, and will only be focused on the storytelling.

Next time find someone who is just a DOP, and find someone else who is just an editor, and you'll end up with a much better film.

Don't be disheartened by not getting into the festivals. You've made a good well written first film, which already puts you way ahead of everyone else. Next time you just need to up your game as a director and bring together a more experienced crew.

And yeah, that background is really annoying! Vimeo is generally the best platform for hosting your films when you're sending it out to other filmmakers etc.

8 years, 5 months ago - Duncan Roe

It's hard to comment on someone else's experience, so I can only speak from my own. I directed a short no budget film 4 years ago. Great actors, good script but I fucked up the shoot. It was definitely on me as my DOP was fantastic. Long story short - the project never moved on from the rough edit as I felt it wasn't up to scratch. Last year we dug out the script and shot it again. We've just started the festival run and it's screening at BFI Flare this Saturday. I suppose there are a few things that I took from the experience that might not apply to you - but the one thing I will say is that there are no rules. If you want to shoot your film again, shoot it again. Haneke did it with Funny Games.

8 years, 5 months ago - simon drake

I reshot a short film (that i produced) into a feature film (that i directed). The short was a great script but a bit of a train wreck (i was inexperienced and the DOP was a complete clown, and refused to listen to the female director due to gender and her inexperience. Although his cinematography was TERRIBLE. Whenever challenged he'd parrot that his Dad had won an Oscar (which he had...) but his cinematography still stank, but we didnt challenge enough as we were less experienced/confident. He then refused to give or show us the rushes when he obviously realised he'd completely screwed up and couldn't edit his own shots together! He then blamed the script when his rough edit was challenged! I eventually got the rushes after years (the director had walked from the project as her first experience was a nightmare and the film looked a joke!) I re-edited a version that totally changed the original script. But it reminded me the script was great but the footage wasn't. So after several years (and making a feature film to boost my confidence) i adapted her short into a feature script and directed it myself with close friends/crew who were a better fit to control the project more. If it's a story that hasn't reached it's full potential, i'd say expand it. But always outstretch your grasp to move forward. So either make a bunch more shorts to practice (i have no film school/college experience, i just made a bunch of shorts, then two features!) then follow your instinct and reshoot it as a feature maybe? You can use what you've learned on the short, but push forward into a bigger project.

8 years, 5 months ago - Jez Lewis

I seldom comment but this is the most interesting question I've seen raised on SP. All advice ao far seems sound to me, but the fact that there's no overall consensus seems to confirm what Duncan Roe says - there are no rules (also said to me by Nick Broomfield when I asked him what's the most important thing to know about film-making). Personally I try to do what I'm really compelled to do, and if I'm unsure I try to imagine lying on my deathbed and looking back on what I regret and what I feel proud of. It's a good short, one to be proud of I'd say, whatever you decide. Good luck!

8 years, 5 months ago - Tony Oldham

The hit rate for getting into festivals can be about 10%, so that's a reasonable success rate.

I knew one producer who's short had been in somewhere like 50 festivals; a successful film right? /// But he also said he'd submitted it to over 500 festivals - so similar success rate. You always need to submit to about 20 plus festivals & unfortunately, that also adds about another £500 to your marketing budget!!

8 years, 5 months ago - Paul W Franklin

Hi,

To answer the question - it feels to me like if you don't remake it, it's going to bug you forever. So I say DO IT.

It's a simple enough shoot, and you can remake it for far less than £1,000. If you know a willing DoP with a half decent camera who'll do it for expenses, great. (I'd be curious to know what camera it was filmed on).

As for the darkness etc - Yes, it's way too dark. A film can be 'dark' but still be lit enough so we can see what we need to see, e.g. the actors' faces! The fairy lights and lights from the oven hood are blown out/too bright. Look at the latter at 2:54 - not good. It's hard to know what directions you gave the DoP and whether he was just following your orders, but - to be completely frank - it's appallingly lit. Going back to the grade and trying to brighten it isn't going to help.

I say: find another DoP who wants to do something interesting with light & dark, and remake it on a shoestring. You've still got the music, costumes (location obviously) etc, so go for it.

P.

8 years, 5 months ago - Peter Tickler

Hi, You definitely need a different DOP. My son is pretty handy - as you can see from this film shot in China over one night with minimal equipment and no crew. https://vimeo.com/110480017 He is now based in London. Contact me via petertickler@btinternet.com if you are interested.