ASK & DISCUSS INDEX

9 years, 10 months ago - gustavo arteaga

Hi Cris. It just seems to me that the initial question has a heavy preconception attached;

"Festivals are worth giving a shit about."

Festivals are just like any other specialist shop. They sell a particular thing and your film is obviously not it. If what you are after is festival recognition make films that look like the ones they promote. Give them a social angle, a radical new aesthetic, make them funnier, whatnot. If what you want is simply to make films and have them seen put them on YouTube. Yes. You'll have to work hard at the self promotion but it comes with the territory. As to whether the more your work gets seen the more your film is worthy of recognition, that is another matter for which I have no answer. I've made award winning films that are total internet flops. I've also made trash music videos with 1000s of "likes" that will never make it to a "B list" festival and rightly so. The one thing I don't think of is what is the next step. There is no sliding scale. If you want your work to be seen just send your work to whoever wants it. If it is the net so be it.

9 years, 10 months ago - Chris Bogle

Bugger, the link to my film didn't work. Here it is:

www.vimeo.com/christopherbogle/screwloose

Enjoy!

9 years, 10 months ago - David Graham Scott

@Chris Bogle
Very true and I'e wasted money on festivals believing that the next one will be the making of me! Having said that I did win a best Uk docu award as I previously mentioned. Never led to anything except me writing it in bulletins like this!

9 years, 10 months ago - Chris Bogle

Right, festival 'run' has now officially ended! I've officially kicked it out into the world and I'm moving on. :)

9 years, 10 months ago - Chris Bogle

Awesome, thanks Mondo, I'm having a look at them now.

9 years, 10 months ago - Chris Bogle

here it is anyway:https://vimeo.com/105055512

9 years, 10 months ago - Chris Bogle

...and when I say song, I mean no money, it's not a music vid. :)

9 years, 10 months ago - Chris Bogle

Thanks David. Good advice, to be honest the goal really isn't monetisation - it's a 4 min short and I'm pretty happy it got into one festival to be honest.

The goal was to make it as a test to see if I could actually direct drama after many years of making promos, and assuming I could direct, to create a calling card to help get me on the radar as a jobbing drama director and of course funding for the next one. Still not getting paid as a drama director hehe but I've got my funding for the next one so it's kinda served its purpose. Also the festival process is very addictive, I think it can be very distracting.

9 years, 10 months ago - Chris Bogle

Great stuff Jane - thanks so much for that. It's been a massive learning curve, the approach was fairly 'throw it at everything and see what sticks'! I think next time around I'll use a festival doctor for sure!

9 years, 10 months ago - Chris Bogle

Thank you Chris! Priority now is to make the next one, and I think this and everything said by the others here is great advice. I think today marks the official end of the festival run :)

Quiet scary though - the anonymity of sending out festival submissions is nice and safe. Now I have to let people I know see it? Gulp.

9 years, 10 months ago - Chris Bogle

Yeah that's good advice as always, thanks Paddy! I just want an audience now, and to move on with the next one!

9 years, 10 months ago - Mondo Ghulam

Hi Chris,

I had something similar with my first short and spent a quite a bit of money in the process.

If you are dead-set on the festival route (and there are benefits to doing so) I can't recommend Festival Formula highly enough. They will assess your film and create a strategy that gets you the most bang for your buck. Top-Tier festivals are desirable but not necessarily the best route for your film or you. FF will discuss what you want to get out of it and target your film accordingly. It's not free but I wouldn't consider any festival route without them now. FF also take care of all the submissions etc., too if you want them to.

My film was and still is online throughout this entire submission process (65+ festivals) only 1 festival refused entry because it was already online. most festivals are happy to show a film that's already online now - but do your research.

Spamorama (my film) has had around 13 festival selections, 1 best animation nomination and has been requested twice in addition to our submission strategy. It's been a wonderful experience so far.

M

9 years, 10 months ago - Karel Bata

I'm coming in a bit late, but...

Shorts are a lot of things, but once they're made they're a marketing tool - to market yourself. Like an ad you put out. It should create a little buzz, and you should try to pick up on that before it fades. And fade it does. The temptation is to get them out there asap, but does that serve you best?

My point is that it may be better to sit on an internet 'release' until you want to push your next project, which might - for instance - include crowd-funding. Ideally you roll from one project to the next, with your next always ready to go - "If you like this movie fund the next one!"

So start prepping while you're editing. People are interested in folks who appear to be constantly working (like I always am! LOL ). But avoid BS - it's a very sticky label.

my 2p

9 years, 10 months ago - Alan Fleet

Here's the link to my channel:
www.youtube.com/channel/UCVRlwxYG5G4SXPzQN_NcQ3g

Alan

9 years, 10 months ago - Chris Bogle

Well, if I'm completely honest with myself it's probably not something that's going to rack up a zillion views on Vimeo. I got an email back from Short of the Week on Friday pointing out what I already kinda knew - it lacks depth and character.

It's a little ditty I made for a song, as a way to see if I could direct an actor, as my wife pointed out over the weekend, it was never intended for a festival audience. I got a good actor, and a good DP which inflated my confidence, then a producer saw it and told me it would do well at festivals and I should enter the BAFTA and OSCAR ones. So I entered a few, got into Cinequest, and all that perpetuated an increasing but false self confidence about a film which isn't actually really very good. If I'm honest. I haven't been self critical enough and I've been swept away by the praise without listening to what festival programmers are telling me. And I think I have to be honest to limit the amount of money and time I spend on this thing, so I can get on with the next one.

9 years, 10 months ago - David Graham Scott

Just get your film up online for people to see. Forget about the money earning as it probably won't happen. You need to get a large audience engaged and that's more important than money.
I realised I was struggling to get my last documentary a distribution deal so I said 'f*ck it' and stuck it on Vimeo for free. That was after winning Best UK Docu at a fairly prestigious film fest too. Had a few more festival runs but then that was that.
There comes a time when you just have to be realistic and just get your film out there. You could monetise it on some social media platform I guess but I'd be tempted to make it free to watch on Vimeo.
My doc is on 'Top Doc Films' and a few other host sites. It's had 20K views in 3 months which isn't too bad for a documentary film on a heavy subject matter.
Just do it I would say!!

9 years, 10 months ago - Jane Sanger

You mentioned festival Tiers of which there are 4. Top 5, Upper 1st, lower 1st and new and bottom tier. Obviously every one wants to be accepted to the top 5 but its not realistic. There is t two middle tiers which have accolades and prestigious laurels but this may not even achievable. First you should put a certain amount of money for festival entry in your initial budget and stick to it. Always enter festivals as early bird if possible, it's cheaper.Next if laurels and festivals are important to you employ a festival agent. It costs but worth it. I suggest the festival doctor Rebekah Smith. She will assess your script or finished film and advise where to best put it. She gets results.
Otherwise you must watch the past winners of your genre film for each festival to see the style the the judges are looking for. It is not enough to have say a good horror, when certain festivals are looking for avant garde, or film noir or social comments. It's a lot of homework hence best to use an agent if you really care. Or as others here say stuff it and go vod.

9 years, 9 months ago - Richard Connew

Chris for what its worth I liked your film, perhaps you could re-work it a little bit and give it a link to one of these groups that help people who have to have every thing just so and that would give it the social edge so many festivals seem to want. Trouble with festivals is while they say they want different and unique what they really seem to want is more of the same and with many of them having links to various social organisations, it seems to maximise your chances if that's an area you cover. I went to Edinburgh film festival in the early 90's and went to a talk by Michael Winner where a member of the audience asked why his socially based film about an African tribe wasn't making any money and it should where as Michaels film "Death Wish" which was "rubbish" and had no social value was. The answer was simple, bums on seats make money so you make what ever Joe Public wants to see until you have enough money, then you can afford to make what you want. Festivals on the whole tend to err towards the social message and "not making money" as that seems to be a dirty word in those circles (mostly UK festivals). So the question is do you want to be loved by the social fluffy types or do you want to make money? If the latter get your film seen as much as possible and use that to help with your next one. I have noticed USA festivals tend to be more centred on the commercially viable view where as most UK ones seem set on Social values particularly if connected to the various social organisations in some way.

9 years, 10 months ago - Alan Fleet

Hello Chris,

I've followed this discussion with interest and after considering all the comments I decided yesterday to put my three short films on YouTube. The easiest way to find them is to search Alan Fleet Short Film and it will take you to my channel.

Giri is about assisted suicide and won four festival awards.
A Good Slap is about gang violence, but not in a way you would expect.
Castle of the Rock is about what happens to invisible friends when they are forgotten about.

Three very different films. Why not take a look and be the first of maybe a large crowd to view. Should have done this ages ago.

Alan

9 years, 10 months ago - Chris Bairstow

Congrats on making your film and getting it into Cinequest film festival.

What are your priorities now?

Do you have another film that you need to make and put your energy and resources into?

Maybe putting the film up your website and letting people see it is the best way forward so you can gradually build up a following of people who want to see your films.

Who are your audience? Scifi, horror, arty, romcom, social docs? Not everyone will be interested in seeing your film. Reach out and connect with the audience/ producers/ distributors who will want to see this genre.

All the best

Chris

9 years, 10 months ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin

What do *you* want to achieve? Sales? An audience? To move on to your next film? Entering lesser and lesser festivals only means spending more money for less and less value, so maybe slam it up on youtube and let the world see your work? Shorts don't sell anyway, so there's no real harm done, and you might get exposure and make some new contacts and get some useful feedback.