ASK & DISCUSS INDEX

10 years, 1 month ago - Adam Ethan Crow

Without a screenplay you have no film. End of. It is the most valuable commodity on a set. And almost always overlooked.

10 years ago - Christopher Jolley

Just wanted to chip in as well, as a scriptwriter who is JUST getting in. It's a difficult one, generally a lot of director's/producers will ask for short film scripts to be submitted, if I have something I've written that matches what they're after then I'll submit it. I do this knowing that I would get a credit, but NO pay, my eyes are open. Generally what I've written was something I may well have tried making myself (and I certainly wouldn't be able to pay myself) so am pleased that my work can be seen, also getting involved in a short for free can be rewarding in that I've been a bigger part of a decision making process in the construction of the film itself.
In terms of feature writing, I never go for the roles that are expenses only or unpaid, writing a feature is a big task and takes a lot of time, so it's not easy to just wade in and write a script for free. Especially if there is a good chance of that film sees distribution. I am happy to take a token fee with a follow up if the film is successful. But never completely free.

10 years, 3 months ago - Adam Ethan Crow

I think you may have confused mine with a different post? The post I wrote was not about screenwriters offering their work for free? ...The post is about people placing adverts, where in they state that they are paying for the making of a film, in other words they are spending cash on lights, food, cameras, transport, make-up, venues, props, mics, hard drives, editing, grading, sound mix, DCP's and yet, they assume that the script which is the basis for the entire project, should be provided for free.

10 years, 1 month ago - Holly Jacobson

Thank you Paddy and I'm 13 at Christmas. It's nice that I sound older because everyone thinks I look about 9 :( xxxxxx

10 years, 1 month ago - Trevor Jones

It may be a "sequential" problem as well, like Wozy says: a Producer sets out to get the next film near to or under budget as much as possible.

This starts from Day 1: doing the stationery (discounts/deals), then Day 2: sourcing the script (free/deferred)......by the time the Producer needs a D.o.P. or Editor (for a short lets say) they may already be on "Day 20" - which in their mind they have reserved their budget for completion.

I am not saying it is right, but there may be a perspective of "plenty more fish in the sea" when it comes to Scriptwriters and "my precious" when it comes to Cinematographers (because so much has been brought together or rented/hired) by the time they are on board.

Perhaps, if Scriptwriters were given an option to submit their script for a given budget and received a fee for re-drafts before and up to the first shoot day, there will be some incremental compensation. Alternatively, the Scriptwriters may have to start invading the Producer "space" to get things done their way too!

10 years, 2 months ago - Lachlan Ward

This is an every department problem. Oh and it's global.

10 years, 1 month ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin

Ha! I don't necessarily agree with Holly, it's not about that, it's about how she sounds more considered than a lot of other members here, and how great that she's joining in the discussion :-)

I've never had an unpaid writer BTW, they have always done well on the 'token' front from my camp ;-)

10 years, 1 month ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin

Holly, are you *sure* you're 12? Your posts are clear and well-considered, well written and have insight.

I think this will serve you well in the world in the future!

10 years, 1 month ago - Adam Ethan Crow

A token payment is not about making money - it is a token. It is saying "I value your contribution." IF you can pay for a van or the rental of a lens you can throw the writer a few bucks for a beer. I love that most of you guys are taking the advice of a 13 year old? ...No wonder the post has gone no where. ...Good luck with it guys. No nap time on set.

10 years, 2 months ago - Lee 'Wozy' Warren

Not sure if that was an answer to my comment?!?

But I was agreeing with Lachlan 'somewhat' about it being an every department and global problem about expenses BUT it was particularly an issue for writers...

10 years, 1 month ago - Lee 'Wozy' Warren

@Paddy Robinson-Griffin "Hudson: Why don't you put her in charge?"

;)

Wozy

10 years, 3 months ago - Adam Ethan Crow

I think you may have confused mine with a different post? The post I wrote was not about screenwriters offering their work for free? ...The post is about people placing adverts, where in they state that they are paying for the making of a film, in other words they are spending cash on lights, food, cameras, transport, make-up, venues, props, mics, hard drives, editing, grading, sound mix, DCP's and yet, they assume that the script which is the basis for the entire project, should be provided for free.

10 years, 3 months ago - Adam Ethan Crow

No drama, I appreciate you jumping in. It's all about ideas, opinions, opportunities and communities - have great weekend.

10 years, 1 month ago - Marlom Tander

The issue is that the writer does all the work FIRST.

Writers work for free all the time on their own scripts, but if someone wants me to write something for them, for free, I need to be convinced that it will be made.

If the game plan is "everyone will work for nothing, and I'll blag all the locations and kit for free" then I have to be convinced that you can deliver, because if you can't, you've invested an hour or so of time in phone calls, and I've invested a few DAYS of my time. Early on in projects THE WRITER is the most invested person.

BTW, if I'm the writer you referred to, you misread me. I told a writer that as it was his project he became the de facto producer and should accept that he'd be paying the bills, though maybe others would chip in. Even if everyone works for free and brings sarnies and flasks of tea, there are bills. Kit hire, locations, costumes etc. To avoid those costs means writing the script to a given production/resources spec. This can be done, but it is unusual for a script that hasn't been written to limits to actually be a zero budget script.

cheers

10 years, 1 month ago - Dan Selakovich

HA! Don't listen to him Holly. There are plenty of short script writers that can learn a lot by having their script produced, and they know that. If everybody is in it for the art, great. If everybody but the writer is getting paid, that's another story.

10 years, 3 months ago - Lee 'Wozy' Warren

Whilst there are writers that offer their work for free, there will be producers happy to take the offer. As a collective group, maybe writers should stop offering their work without at least a minimum of compensation.

£100 for a short script sounds quite reasonable on a budget of, say, £1000-£2000. I remember a few years ago paying more than double that to a writer for a short and she went on to become the show runner on a US police procedural series remake here in the UK (although I doubt my involvement had much impact).

Wozy

10 years, 1 month ago - Holly Jacobson

Hello Adam,

I'm not actually 13 until Christmas, as far as I can tell no one has "taken my advice" and I think if the main come back to the points I've raised is to suggest that I may need a nap on set then maybe I made them too well :)

I'm sorry if you feel my input means the post has "gone no where" - but to be fair you brought it up two months ago and I commented last night, so I don't feel I can take sole responsibility for any failings you're seeing.

Here's a thing: perhaps the writer could pay a contribution to the people who are helping his words on a page become a real film? Maybe a writer could pay for the lenses and van rental and chuck a few bucks the directors way as an acknowledgment of all that she is doing to make the film he wrote into something real.

Okay, I don't really think the writer should do that - because I think it is all about collaboration - but seriously when everyone is doing it for the fun, experience and kudos, why should one party feel entitled to be paid by another and why is it the writer or director who is always considered the one to pay up?

Of course people who are working for a living want to be paid - and there are plenty of paid production and writing gigs right! If you want to write short films though I think it realistically can't be for the money - there is no financial market for it. It totally gets me mad when I see commercial projects not paying people, but that is a very different matter.

I would also challenge your assumption that anyone is paying for lenses or van rental. Personally I borrow those things too! If I do have any money to spend on a film, I want it to be visible on the screen - and if I wrote a film someone else was going to make I'd rather they made my story look better (because that is the point right) rather than buy me beer haha!

Well, you were quite rude to me Adam, but that's okay. A lot of people are very prejudice towards me because of my age. One advantage of working with such a young filmmaker though is that I'm not so likely to drink too much beer and need a nap in the middle of a filming day.

Thank you for reading,

10 years, 1 month ago - Holly Jacobson

Hi Marlom, I think you have an interesting assumption, in that you think initially the writer is the one who is the most invested.

The writer is right at the start of the process, but other parties also invest a lot of time, energy and money before even getting involved. I've done lots of acting and there are a lot of "expenses" of time and money that aren't ever covered.

Firstly, there is the time to write an application letter, then there is the time to learn and rehearse sometimes several pages of dialogue (and rarely with more than 48 hours notice). I don't live near London, so I quite likely will need to spend between 4 and 6 hours on a train and pay around £65 for the tickets to attend the audition. If that all goes well then there is the same again for a recall. All that isn't inconsiderable - and consider if you will that they are just the job specific "expenses". There are also, head shots, showreels, membership of casting websites - and just like the writers we also need computers and internet - or we wouldn't be able to apply in the first place. After all that, it is the industry standard, that if they don't want you, you'll never hear back from them again (even after recalls). This is true for productions of ALL levels. If you get the role, the above expenses still won't be covered. It's just what is expected.

I think lots of actors wish they could just invest time and energy and not so much money, just to be considered for a job.

I totally understand what you're saying about not wanting to write something for somebody unless you know that it will be made. That is partly about how much you trust your collaborator - but also, consider, someone saying they want you to write something is surely a bit like an audition? And like with an acting performance it is very subjective. You may write something worthy of an oscar - but it may not be the right story for that filmmaker. Also consider that for a filmmaker they may then spend 4 - 6 weeks just in pre-production (maybe 100 hours of prep time) to make the project come together.

Yes, we have to be careful who we collaborate with, but at some point we have to trust each other. Also.... low budget doesn't have to mean not ambitious. I heard once that making a film is a balance between time, money and quality. Money makes it easier, but if someone works hard they can get most things done without so much of it.

Holly x

10 years, 2 months ago - Adam Ethan Crow

So if a cinematographer has paid off his lighting, and camera they should work for free? Is that what you are saying? And obviously a director has no outlay at all so; free. And if Gaffer has already bought duct-tape, then; - it goes on.
The thing is this, if you are on a shoot and the Gaffer, Director, whoever doesn't show up; you get a replacement. Have you ever, in the middle of a shoot, binned the script and got a totally different one?
The script IS the film - I just find it bullshit when film makers are willing to pay for everything, but not even offer a token 50 quid for the script.

I'm lucky, I earn a great living screenwriting, so I understand why a writer who is struggling might give it away for free.

But, really - come one, offer them a token payment.

Adam

PS.
I had to buy a laptop and a printer and paper and ink - so while not huge, there is outlay.

10 years, 3 months ago - Lee 'Wozy' Warren

But it does still come down to writers offering their work for free... If enough didn't, then producers would have to pay along with the camera, edit, lights etc...

It should always be a line item. But the job of a producer is to get the film made for as little money as possible, via short schedules or small cast/crew or not paying everyone... So you can't blame them, per se.

Maybe a new mantra is needed - "no pay, no script!"

10 years, 2 months ago - Lee 'Wozy' Warren

It is - however, it's particularly a writers issue as they have no expenses per se to submit and therefore often don't even work for expenses.

10 years, 1 month ago - Holly Jacobson

I find it really interesting reading all of your comments - but honestly I totally disagree! Of course the script is probably the most important part of the film (no amount of great acting, cool locations and amazing shots) can make up for a poor story... HOWEVER, short films are not commercial projects - with very few exceptions they are money pits. Everyone is in it for the kudos surely!

Some roles on a film have more to gain from it than others. For example, the director can really make a name for herself and so can the script writer likewise. Roles like runner or lighting technician on the other hand are less obviously visible - surely if anything it is these roles that should be paid???

On another thread about a week back, a writer came asking how to go about getting a director on board to make his short. He was told he would need to pay the director! I also don't agree with this. People feeling worthy of being paid doesn't make money magically appear. I think the attitude that anyone who isn't rich shouldn't bother is awful - what a way to waste and bury talented people!

If you write an amazing short film and someone that you think is brilliant is wiling to make it (and pay for the ESSENTIAL expenses of doing so themselves to see your script come to life) then I think that is wonderful.

It's a collaboration - short films aren't about the money - they are for learning - making contacts - showing what we can do. Directors, producers, writers.... we need each other. Let's make fantastic films together that we can be proud of and that will hone our skills. It is really my belief that if you just do what you love and be the best that you can, it will eventually lead to a financially rewarding career. Until then we are in the same boat.

If it is for a feature film, TV or any kind of commercial project then I definitely think everyone should be paid in some form (even if it's negotiated as part ownership) because that is only fair.

Thank you for reading,

Holly x

10 years, 3 months ago - Lee 'Wozy' Warren

My bad!