ASK & DISCUSS INDEX

6 years, 2 months ago - Marlom Tander

Most people making shorts simply self fund and shoot. Producer pays expenses.

These are all good practice - there's no point in hiring expensive kit, locations, cast, props etc until you are confident that you will get the benefit.

Once you are willing to commit to your I AM HERE short (the one that will win serious prizes and get you meetings with big people ) - paying people*, having the right locations, props, editor etc - I'd say you need to be thinking 10K+. If less, then start with your budget and constrain your script accordingly.

*This is YOUR project. On your practice projects you might have been willing to compromise with actors demands etc because there were free, and had a right to whatever they considered to be good showreel material. But this is YOUR project, and you want people to do what you tell them, even if they think you're wrong. You get that by paying them :-)

6 years, 2 months ago - Jane Sanger

All of the above suggested by Marlom. 10-15,000 is a ballpark for a good short , good cast and crew etc.
However you can make shorts for 2-5,000. Write a script with two people, really suprising unexpected finish, in one location. So you collaborate with a cinematographer, you put ads up on here for the cast or rope in good acting friends, you beg for the location, you ask a newly qualified sound person to get involved. You give them a lovely hot lunch each day. You can make a 5-7 page script for travel expenses and food for £500. You will have to save yourself to get this. You edit and colour yourself. You put into a few festivals , student perhaps, not sure how old you are. Hey presto you have a short film of about 5-10 mins. THEN next time you crowdfund saying I just made this well received short and now I want to do another. Mean while build up your Twitter profile - this is best for crowdfunding. Also look on film freeway and put your scripts into competition.
Everyone wants to work on an award winning script if you are so lucky and win.

6 years, 2 months ago - NICHOLAS PROSSER

Hi James,
I share your dilemma, though I am an experienced broadcast television drama director at the other end of a career from the media studies student. I am currently working with an ex colleague who wants to climb the ladder to produce and she is currently seeing funding on one of the 5 short film screenplays I have written. If we come up with answers, I;ll let you know. If you want to write to me, my e-mail address is nicholas.prosser@gmail.com

6 years, 2 months ago - Mark Jepson

Hi James, you've told us you have 'zero experience' of making films but you want to start off making short films that 'look and feel' professional and to 'pay cast & crew a decent wage'. Well, I totally understand your ambition, but as a friendly bit of advice I'd just say be cautious and don't jump in the deep water...just yet!. The most important thing you lack is technical knowledge and you won't get that by paying out thousands to make a short film. On the contrary, it will make you more dependent on others and your first attempt will probably suck. As has been pointed out, it's best to do a few practice shoots to build up your technical knowledge and confidence first before committing yourself to the next level. To get the full benefit of
a filming education you really need to experience the agony of writing, shooting then sitting down to edit. At this point you will also come to understand the importance of post-production, especially the critical role of sound design (largely overlooked by first timers).This experience doesn't come from getting someone else to do it for you. The best bit about this hard won technical knowledge is that is costs just a few pounds. Go out and make that film - there's absolutely nothing stopping you.

6 years, 2 months ago - James James

Some solid advice, really appreciate everyone's wisdom.
Thanks Nicholas, please do contact me if you figure a way how to do it!
I like your thinking Jane /Mark, some lower budget ones to build a catalogue and name. I better get saving! Never heard of film freeway before so thanks for the heads up on that.
How do you build up a name on Twitter though?
Also Mark- by sound design, do you mean foley?
I can do basic camerawork & I enjoy editing though appreciate dedicated craftspeople (someone who breathes cinematography) in those fields will be able to step it up to another level, which is what I'd like eventually.

Thanks for the encouragement, there's hope yet!

6 years, 2 months ago - Mark Jepson

Hi James, by sound design I'm referring to the whole experience - music, dialogue, foley, tones etc. if you can already do basic camerawork and editing then you are well ahead! I'd be looking to team up with local actors and (if possible) any crew you can find. Keep it local and cheap. Write something easy to shoot using the locations you can get for free. Some of the best shorts I've ever seen have been one location shoots with just one or two actors. If you can make something decent doing this, you will attract better cast and crew for your next shoot.

Check out the Sundance short A Reasonable Request (comedy drama), or genre pieces like The Black Hole (sci-fi) and Lights Out (horror). Amazing films, all one location shoots with and one or two actors. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijEfmJLV5PE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNbJE0y29_c

As for building up a name on Twitter, I'd get some product made first before you worry too much about that though it won't hurt to start asking yourself what kind of audience are you hoping to get for your work? It's easy to get a bunch of random followers on twitter, but building up a relevant audience takes time. You need to provide value for the people that follow you. Get yourself a book on basic twitter strategies and take it from there - but don't put social media ahead of your creative endeavours!

6 years, 2 months ago - James James

Thanks Mark! You're right I need some basic portfolio work to attract collaborators.Not a horror fan but it was well done that link, (12 million views to boot) micro-short, no dialogue, interesting, may try my hand a few of those for practise.
Twitter and all social media do seem like a lot of work so it's good to know that can wait for a bit so I can concentrate on creating good work.

6 years, 2 months ago - Victor De Almeida

Hi James,

I think everyones journey is different. I produced my first short film without knowing what I was doing and a budget of about 2 grand. I hadn't gone to film school hadnt studied it in university and hadnt thought of directing before that film.

I think you definitely should aim to get something produced which is interior and no more than two or three characters and whilst we would all like to pay everyone involved, start off with an expenses only project. Despite what you might hear, you can get a lot of talented people in a similar position as yourself willing to work for expenses. If the script is good then you'll find that it will naturally attract a good team. It helps if you're cinematographer has some contacts to help you get good deals on good kit. I shot my first 3 films on arri mini's and used cooke lenses with a great lighting package for two of my shorts. On one of the shorts we were able to rent a arri mini for 3 days for just 400 and panalux helped us with an amazing lighting package too.

It can seem an uphill battle at times, but just surround yourself with good people, as someone said, dont throw yourself in the deepend straight away, there is never any need to rush a project.

6 years, 2 months ago - Jane Sanger

Some words of advice following a few years of making shorts. Do not use editors who have only done tv, they do not know how to colour grade or sound design properly. So a basic mistake on sound design is ie you have a boom, mics and camera sound. This is given in one .wav file usually. You have to break it apart to all the components and choose which tracks balance sound , add foley and music and balance this ie levels throughout. Of course a sound designer does this best but you can learn it. Next colour grade. This can completely transform a film and I have advertised on colour grade fb sites for people willing to do it free in exchange for use of it for their showreels when first starting out. That is a bit hit and miss and therefore start learning it yourself on fcpx or premiere pro . Da Vinci resolve is one of the best but you either have to learn it or use a Colorist. There is a way to do everything cheap but all the components need to be in place for a good film story, acting, lighting, cinematography, dressed locations, costume, editing, sound design, colour grade plus more. Start make errors as everyone does and learn and move on. The better film you make the more likely you are to get funding for your next one. The first is always the hardest to fund.

6 years, 2 months ago - James James

Some good advice Victor, Thanks! (expenses would be the minimum for sure, just in respect of people's time). I have toyed with the idea of DIY cinematography/investing in something full frame like a Sony A7s ii.

You're right Jane, I'm always saying how people neglect that the sound is just as important than the picture. I'm comfortable mixing sound but it's a matter of finding an economical balance since shotgun or wireless mics can be expensive.
There's a wealth of foley resources out there and I do have a basic zoom recorder to do some of my own/ambience recordings.

I interned at a post house and grading seems quite technical but have seen plug ins such as Red Giant's stuff (colorista/Looks) that automate some of the process for the neophyte. I have some experience with colour correction though.

These comments have inspired me to just take the plunge and make a few things minimalist style and slowly build up my connections!

5 years, 11 months ago - Catalin Leescu

Hi James,

If you don't mind, please send me synopsises of your unproduced material along with your vision on them.

Thanks,

Catalin

5 years, 11 months ago - Tom Jolliffe

Finding producers who can find financing is incredibly difficult. Particularly as any producer worth their salt will expect to be paid up front, by which point you're essentially paying for someone to find you money. If you want control, produce yourself. Look into funding avenues (if you feel you have an idea with an social relevance that might attract some funding sources). Alternatively, beg, steal, borrow. If you know anyone in any kind of finance background who has any kind of burning desire to get into film, they may be tempted to part with some good will investment for a producing credit.

If there's one thing I've long looked to find and had almost no luck, it's a producer. I've got a few potentials of late, but we'll see how it goes. Ultimately too, the more money people put into your film, the more they may be inclined to impose things on you. 'Cast my friend' 'Give my nephew a crew role' etc. Sometimes there's no problem in doing that, but occasionally you may have to compromise your own vision.

I agree with someone above too. Start smaller. Put an ad on here for anyone interest in shooting a no budget guerilla production. Get some you actors wanting footage. People wanting experience or to keep themselves sharp between gigs. Just collaborate and see what happens. Get 1-2 films made as well as you can and then look at trying to put together a 10-15k short. Because one thing I can tell you is, you could wait for months and months, years in scraping together that 10-15k, and not be making anything. If you have a camera and two people you know, you could make a film this afternoon. Granted it may be incredibly rough, but no matter what you have, how much your budget, just make sure it's as good as you can make it. There's a certain freedom to Guerilla that can be refreshing if you embrace it. Be willing to start off, without spending too much and be at peace with the fact you'll have rough sound, or you may be shooting 1080 rather than 2k, and all that stuff, or that your rough diamond cast may be inconsistent.

Most of all though, good luck.

5 years, 11 months ago - Jane Sanger

You ask about how to build media presence. There was crowd fire but all those avenues have been shut down by Twitter . This for a monthly fee got you real followers in exchange for you following back. Twitter is the best Avenue for film crowdfunding. Fb is not good and you have to pay to advertise it very hit and miss. Linked in likewise. So how do you build? It takes time but start now. Get more fb friends and as they accept your request ask them tho please follow you on Twitter. Email all your email contacts list and say I am trying to build my twitter following please follow me and I’ll follow you. Do this and like their posts . Interaction is key. It’s a slow process but nothing is for nothing. I have 5,000 on fb30,000 across several sites on twitter etc but it’s taken me a couple of years to do this. Nothing is for nothing and it all takes work and time.

5 years, 11 months ago - James James

Thanks for the advice everyone. In regards to building a social media following, that is pretty much a full time job these days unfortunately and most creative people would rather spend their time doing creative things. Ironically those creative things will probably not see the light of dark if you don’t build an audience on social media.

If anyone has a social media niche building service that would be a goldmine for creatives.