ASK & DISCUSS INDEX

4 years, 10 months ago - John Lubran

The outlook for new producers is excellent good, indifferent, not so good and poor.

It's a rhetorical question. Depends on how well ones talents can engage with opportunities and the vacuum of potentiality.

4 years, 10 months ago - Alpesh Gor

Hi John, thank you for your reply. I appreciate the rhetoricalness of my question. Having read my post back, I realise how silly it sounds.

My initial aim was to ask whether small independent producers were able to make a reasonable living in the UK film industry - and by that I mean, enough to live on. However, just before typing out my post, I read another post which was related to Covid and I went on a completely different and worried pathway.

So, maybe I should quit this thread and start another which asks what I really wanted to ask, and that is how much can a small indi producer expect to make in the UK?

4 years, 10 months ago - John Lubran

It's one of those 'hoe long is a piece of string questions' but the answer remains the same.

Economically viable film making is big challenge at the best of times. That's why many find themselves narrowly engaged within sectors such as commercials, institutional and corporate unable to find pathways to the real aspirations.

There's that old metaphorical story about the man who when asked about the price of new Rolls Royce, replied, "If you have to ask, you can't afford it "

Every producer has his own character, skills and opportunities. There's no single equation or narrow pathway that can possibly answer your question. Working smarter is the better part of working harder.

4 years, 10 months ago - Marlom Tander

"Is there any investment for independents"? Is the wrong question. Asking it means that you should NOT give up the day job. The right question ends "like me?". Answer, basically NO. To make it a yes, (Ok, a maybe), make an award winning but not arty short.

In your shoes, you CAN make any film that you can 100% fund. If you simply want to make a film to fulfil your ambition, there you go.

If you want to get your money back, or make a profit, then it becomes "have you got a project that you can see yourself selling in a commercial environment?"

If yes, then it's "are you confident enough to risk your money".

If you can bring in an entertaining genre movie, cert 12a max, with proper production values so it looks the part on TV/Streaming, for your Redundancy money, I would expect you to recoup. HOWEVER, if you get the casting wrong, it won't be entertaining and you'll have a total loss. If you choose the wrong crew, it won't be the right quality, and, a total loss.

Me, I'd probably go for it, but I have a risk appetite that is higher than most :-) ( I used to do raves, which, if you fail to sell the tickets = total loss).

Covid. Unless you can completely bubble everyone right through, I'd wait until covid has settled.

Good luck

4 years, 10 months ago - Marlom Tander

I wish there was an edit, or a t least a bigger text box. The movie, where the budget is your redundancy.

4 years, 10 months ago - Richard Anthony Dunford

I think the 'sensible' thing to do would be to do both. Use your redundancy cash to fund the film but get another 'day job' to pay the bills.

Outside of the very very top level I think the amount of independent producers in the UK earning a living from producing is few and far between... and that was before Covid.

4 years, 10 months ago - John Lubran

The term 'producer" is applied to so many differing jobs. Particularly as used to describe quite different roles in film, television and producers of independent television production.

Exactly what sort of producer Alpesh aspires to be is not entirely clear but I imagine it's to produce independent film.

Some producers are very hands on as describes the 'creative producer's who is not infrequently the director too


Whatever the range of duty a producer has he or she is usually, apart from those directly employed by broadcasters, about money and the business of the business whilst also being overall boss. Without a producer there's no production.

But creative producing is not only about interfering and frustrating the talent. A dry accountant of a producer is unlikely to be capable of steering the multifaceted construct of creative talent and creative business to success. Creative producing is a lot more than managing numbers, it's more about getting the numbers and networking the production through the rocks and reefs and into the open seas of opportunity and distribution. Whilst there's always stuff one needs to learn and/or the natural ability to identify and apply the skills of others, such producers much like the talent, is born rather than taught.

The producer is the keystone that the construct depends on. There's a degree of magic involved no less than is required for the talent in front of and behind the camera. Before one becomes a millionaire self financing producer and executive producer ones role is to ensure that a project is actually worth making in the first place which takes a specific form of noise that's not always a virtue of the talent. Translating that nouse into money is paramount.

4 years, 9 months ago - Alpesh Gor

Thank you all for such great replies.

When I mentioned in my first post that I have the opportunity to take voluntary redundancy, I should have added that this redundancy money would not pay for the film but would allow me to have that security whereby I can continue to pay my mortgage, bills and other living costs whilst I attempt to find that script that will give me the confidence to source investment to then go and make a film.

Over the years, I just haven't had the opportunity where I can confidently quit my day job to then attempt to fulfil my ambition to produce a film that can hopefully make a living for me and others. But as I now have the security of the redundancy money, I'm thinking should I or should I not make that move in such uncertain time!

My redundancy money can last me a year... maybe a little more. In that time, I would be looking to source a script, develop, source finance etc. At the same time, I would also look to find a part-time job just to play it safe financially for me.

Oddly enough, I was on a day trip with family yesterday in Seven Sisters, Sussex and there was a fairly large film shoot going on. I was so tempted to approach the producer and ask for tea making job!

4 years, 9 months ago - John Lubran

Wishing you lots of joy and success Alpesh. There's definitely a pathway from aspiration to achievement, especially if one can avoid the pitfalls and bear traps.

4 years, 9 months ago - Alpesh Gor

Thank you John.

4 years, 9 months ago - Ray Brady

Hi Alpesh,
Just a few thoughts, with thousands of people, presently chasing every single job application, taking voluntary redundancy thinking that the payment will cover you for a year in which time you will get another or part-time job seems to me like a truly massive risk to take. Unless you are exceptionally incredibly good at what you do for your present-day job, totally confident that other work will most definitely be offered to you. 

No financiers will pay a Producer a fee to make their first film, if you think that you would be allowed to take money from any budget raised from investors to pay yourself as an untested Producer during production, it is not at all likely or realistic sorry.

A year may seem like a long time but it will go very quickly and the majority of films take at least three years from conception to completion and income from sales usually another year on top of that. 

Covid-19 is not going away quickly and may sadly be with us for years to come, even when a vaccine is finely approved, how long will it be effective for, sorry to sound pessimistic, we're in completely new territory here with this disease, again sorry to be downbeat but just trying to be realistic.

Films are expensive to make, even using the latest technology and collaborating you will find yourself quickly spending a lot of money. Without having a proven track record of past filmmaking success, invariably you will end up having to pay people with proven skills to work with you understandably rather than on their own personal passion projects.

I would therefore suggest that you stay in your present job as you mention you have a family to provide for. Film producing is a really high-risk business, even really great films often fail to get distribution or make any money whatsoever. If you are really passionate about making a film, use your evening free time to plan and then go ahead and make one in your free time, shoot over odd weekends, use your holiday weeks off work to shoot weeklong blocks of production, look for a film project that might enable you to shoot safely this way, perhaps choose a script that has several individual interlinking stories or could be sold an marketed as an anthology. 

Having a day job could be your greatest strength in making a film, being in a secure financial stable position will enable you to not cut corners, take your time and make the most financially practical decisions without importantly starting a stressful clock counting down. If you find that you do not find the time to pull a film together in your free time, put in the hours, burn the midnight oil, then you most probably wouldn't have had the dedication and commitment to make a film, either way, whatever your decision the very best of luck. 
Regards Ray
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0002916/ 

4 years, 9 months ago - Alpesh Gor

Hi Ray,

Thank you so much for such an absolutely realistic answer. I absolutely agree with everything you said. I've been weighing up all the possibilities in my head for weeks and weeks, causing much loss of sleep and anxiety. I think it's the desire to produce a film that is leading my thoughts - the old cliche of heart over brain!

I've calculated my finances, and my redundancy money would last me a year and a half. Not long at all, especially as you said in the current climate. Any other time and I would have taken the money and run.

I have a few more days to decide should I stay or should I go now (there's a song in there somewhere, isn't there!!!). But I think I know what I'll be doing.... There's also that other option of leaving and setting up another business!!!!

Decisions decisions.....