ASK & DISCUSS
INDEX"What Would You Do?" - a genre in itself?
11 years, 4 months ago - Karel Bata
I love the conundrums that used to appear on the covers of a 60s boys' comic, like this one: http://bit.ly/PA3ngm Well, can you figure out the solution? Quite obvious really...
It could be argued that all storytelling does this - puts the hero in jeopardy and makes you guess at what happens next. Thrillers do it in bucketloads. Panic Room for example, where the heroine is faced with life-threatening puzzles she has to solve.
But it seems to me there's a certain genre sub-set, which overlaps other genres, that invite you to put yourself in a protagonist's shoes, with time to reflect on options, and figure out how to get out of the jam - The 'What Would You Do?' movies.
Good examples are All is Lost, Gravity, Cast Away. They usually involve a single character, often physically far from their comfort zone, who is forced to confront their situation, and their inner demons, to get back to safety.
Plotting and realism is more rigid than in most other comparable films (which is where Gravity falls down for me - way too many plot holes), they're often intimate in tone, and though the goal may be the mundane one of getting home, doing so requires a heroic series of efforts that push the protagonist to the extreme.
Thoughts? Particularly - what other tropes recur?
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11 years, 3 months ago - Karel Bata
@Paddy Robinson-Griffin They wouldn't get there in time. You have minutes before it reaches its target. Or else you sit back and watch it explode somewhere in London...
Response from 11 years, 3 months ago - Karel Bata SHOW
11 years, 4 months ago - Karel Bata
You'll kick yourself. It's all there in the opening setup: "he's just returned from a hunting trip". And miles away I can hear the penny drop...
But of course these things are always open to debate.
Here's another http://bit.ly/1kI79zC I love the way they've always "run out of ammo". Happens to me all the time.
;-)
Response from 11 years, 4 months ago - Karel Bata SHOW
11 years, 3 months ago - Karel Bata
@Paddy Robinson-Griffin
Exactly so. I would have panicked and run.
Response from 11 years, 3 months ago - Karel Bata SHOW
11 years, 3 months ago - Karel Bata
Well done!
Response from 11 years, 3 months ago - Karel Bata SHOW
11 years, 4 months ago - Franz von Habsburg FBKS MSc
Well I was once faced with a lady problem: my wife was in a shoe shop pondering which pair, as she liked both, so I thought "Sod it!" and bought both pairs!
Response from 11 years, 4 months ago - Franz von Habsburg FBKS MSc SHOW
11 years, 4 months ago - Karel Bata
OK The answer to the first one at http://bit.ly/PA3ngm is - and if you haven't been there yet go now before I tell you the answer...
(They are great aren't they? In a few words they present a cliff hanger any writer would be proud of.)
The hunter dips into his bag full of fresh meat and throws out something that the wolves rush toward which allows him time to get to his cabin. Easy!
The second http://bit.ly/1kI79zC is a bit baffling.
The V1 flew at 400mph, the Spitfire had a max speed that was a little more than that, so catching up with the rocket wouldn't have been easy. I would imagine the V1s might be at some altitude too. But, it's a boy's comic, so...
The pilot flies alongside the rocket (at 400mph!) gets his wing tip under the V1's and flips it up. The rocket's guidance system will be unable to recover from this (it was 1944) and crashes to the ground.
Any better suggestions?
Response from 11 years, 4 months ago - Karel Bata SHOW
11 years, 3 months ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin
Not sure I'd want to be making physical contact at 350-odd knots with a dirty great bomb. Personally I'd be more inclined to radio home, get out of the way, and let them scramble someone to shoot it down!
Response from 11 years, 3 months ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin SHOW
11 years, 4 months ago - Karel Bata
Thanks. I don't think the film has to be in the 'real world' for it to qualify, though I can't think of an exception. And isn't Gravity meant to be in the real word? Just 600 miles up.
Danny Boyle's 127 Hours fits the bill. Or Open Water or Bresson's A Man Escaped.
I'm looking for tropes. Like, these films are usually about an individual. There's often a ticking clock: the oxygen has run out; the boat is sinking; etc. The space gets progressively smaller. In Cast Away he moves from the island to a raft. I can't remember if the space craft in Gravity get smaller, but I bet they do.
I think they're really difficult to pull off. How long will an audience be interested? When does it all begin to look contrived? Plot holes glare that much brighter - why didn't Robert Redford know basic sea stuff like the standard distress call or how to use a signal flare?
Response from 11 years, 4 months ago - Karel Bata SHOW
11 years, 4 months ago - David Graham Scott
Have to ask you....just what was the solution to that dilemma? Does he shoot the pack leader and kill it? Then the other wolves move in to cannibalise their former comrade. Is that it or am I missing something? I just have to know, my friend.
Cheers
DGS
Response from 11 years, 4 months ago - David Graham Scott SHOW
11 years, 4 months ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin
Guys under 25 are the biggest market for films, so it's just a shortcut that makes sense in the book's context. He's certainly got nothing against women with problems, discusses some more female-centred movies in the exact same way as make centred ones, etc. I know it's not popular to say so here, but it's not a bad book. Sounds like some execs have taken it rather literally as a blueprint rather than as an x-ray!
Response from 11 years, 4 months ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin SHOW
11 years, 3 months ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin
Kill one buffalo with the rifle and hide behind it as the stampede will go round such a big obstruction?
Response from 11 years, 3 months ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin SHOW
11 years, 4 months ago - Peter Spencer
Best and most obvious example of this would not be Gravity, in my opinion, it would be PRISONERS - that is a real 'what would you do/how far would you go' film
Response from 11 years, 4 months ago - Peter Spencer SHOW
11 years, 3 months ago - Kays Alatrakchi
Wow, thank you for the answers. Now I will know exactly what to do when I find myself in those exact situations! ;-)
Response from 11 years, 3 months ago - Kays Alatrakchi SHOW
11 years, 4 months ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin
This is where your two recent threads collide! Save the Cat arrived today, so reading it and frankly enjoying it. The author talks about genre from a different angle, and in his model 'Dude with a Problem' genre is pretty much what you describe above, also catching the wider fields including Titanic, Schindler's List, etc - something is wrong how would the ordinary guy protagonist try to resolve it?
Response from 11 years, 4 months ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin SHOW
11 years, 4 months ago - Karel Bata
Here's another: http://bit.ly/SpitfireOutOfAmmoAgainUnderAttack
Response from 11 years, 4 months ago - Karel Bata SHOW
11 years, 3 months ago - Franz von Habsburg FBKS MSc
I quote from Wiki: "One other method sometimes used to defeat a V-1 was called "tipping." A pilot in a fast fighter, such as a Spitfire or a P-51, could catch up with a V-1, slide a wingtip under the flying bomb's wing, and literally tip it over, causing it to fly off course and into the ground -- or into the sea."
Response from 11 years, 3 months ago - Franz von Habsburg FBKS MSc SHOW
11 years, 4 months ago - Kays Alatrakchi
PLEASE PROVIDE THE ANSWERS TO THE ABOVE SCENARIOS, IT"S DRIVING ME INSANE NOT TO KNOW!!!!!!
Response from 11 years, 4 months ago - Kays Alatrakchi SHOW
11 years, 4 months ago - Adriano Cirulli
Unthinkable - 2010
Response from 11 years, 4 months ago - Adriano Cirulli SHOW
11 years, 4 months ago - Ellin Stein
Does he also have a "Lady with a Problem" model, or is such a genre too far-fetched (though Gravity is an example, I suppose)? A perfect example of how language establishes preconceptions.
Response from 11 years, 4 months ago - Ellin Stein SHOW
11 years, 3 months ago - Karel Bata
Heheh I knew it.
OK, the one at http://bit.ly/SpitfireOutOfAmmoAgainUnderAttack is a bit tough. I didn't have a clue.
The answer is at http://bit.ly/SpitfireANSWER
Here's another, and (ludicrous as it may seem) based on a real event: http://bit.ly/BuffaloBillConundrum
;-)
Response from 11 years, 3 months ago - Karel Bata SHOW
11 years, 3 months ago - Peter Proniewicz-Brooks
The spitfire one is a bit of a red herring as the technique used should be the same whatever (the explosion caused by shooting it down at the effective range of the spitfire's guns (particularly to hit) would be a great risk to the pilot) physical contact is also out of the question. The technique is to position the wing under the V1s (within about 6 inches) the aerodynamic effect destabilises the V1 and it crashes.
Response from 11 years, 3 months ago - Peter Proniewicz-Brooks SHOW