ASK & DISCUSS INDEX

4 years, 4 months ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin

Totally sympathise Matthew, although if it helps, many "producer" roles listed are actually "raise money for us then get expenses", so similar or with even less perspective!

I guess the flip-side is what is your value as a writer? If, for instance, you have written for TV/features then you may have more title page appeal than even a great writer without credits, so :/

4 years, 4 months ago - Simon Thomas

Totally agree with Paddy. I'd say people are happy to pay, when they know what they are paying for :)

4 years, 4 months ago - Bob Eckhard

Hi Matthew, speaking as a writer, I know where you're coming from. While there are a few writers on SP who have found paid work on here they are the exception and also had a great CV. Last year, I replied to a post on SP about a feature project but - having provided an outline - I turned it down when I was informed no-one was getting paid except an ex-Eastender star and his entourage. I pointed out, if he could afford that, he could afford a writer as there is no film without the writer. I have no gripes because I am not financially dependent on writing but my observation is that like TV pundits, I think a lot of people in the creative industry from filmmakers to hair stylists believe they they can write a script, having done little or no training. I've been mentored, studied format and written plays/TV/screenplays for the last 10 years and know I can write (as I presume you do). Not everyone can say that but a lot who haven't done the yard yards, believe they can write scripts to an industry standard.

4 years, 4 months ago - Bob Eckhard

Hi Matthew, speaking as a writer, I know where you're coming from. While there are a few writers on SP who have found paid work on here they are the exception and also had a great CV. Last year, I replied to a post on SP about a feature project but - having provided an outline - I turned it down when I was informed no-one was getting paid except an ex-Eastender star and his entourage. I pointed out, if he could afford that, he could afford a writer as there is no film without the writer. I have no gripes because I am not financially dependent on writing but my observation is that like TV pundits, I think a lot of people in the creative industry from filmmakers to hair stylists believe they they can write a script, having done little or no training. I've been mentored, studied format and written plays/TV/screenplays for the last 10 years and know I can write (as I presume you do). Not everyone can say that but a lot who haven't done the hard yards, believe they can write scripts to an industry standard.

4 years, 4 months ago - Matthew Lyne-Watt

There's a great little story here which pretty much sums up this discussion...

A giant ship engine failed. The ship’s owners tried one expert after another, but none of them could figure but how to fix the engine.

Then they brought in an old man who had been fixing ships since he was a young. He carried a large bag of tools with him, and when he arrived, he immediately went to work. He inspected the engine very carefully, top to bottom.

Two of the ship’s owners were there, watching this man, hoping he would know what to do. After looking things over, the old man reached into his bag and pulled out a small hammer. He gently tapped something. Instantly, the engine lurched into life. He carefully put his hammer away. The engine was fixed!

A week later, the owners received a bill from the old man for ten thousand dollars.

“What?!” the owners exclaimed. “He hardly did anything!”

So they wrote the old man a note saying, “Please send us an itemized bill.

The man sent a bill that read:

Tapping with a hammer………………….. $ 2.00

Knowing where to tap…………………….. $ 9,998.00

Effort is important, but knowing where to make an effort makes all the difference!

I'm not saying we should charge this much but you get the point. You're paying for experience. The more experienced you are, the more confident you are with your craft,. Thus, the more you can ask for. I started off writing for free. There are others on here that are probably doing the same. But if you're looking for expertise, well, time is money as they say.

4 years, 4 months ago - Stephen Potts

Surely it's simple economics. There are thousands of would-be screenwriters, many willing to work for low pay, no pay or expenses, as a way to break in. There are only so many screenwriting gigs, and only a small proportion of those pay well, despite the total amount of money in the system. Established star names are seen as safe bets, so that is where the money goes. A handful get the cadillac, some get the steak knives, most get nothing at all.

4 years, 4 months ago - Marlom Tander

It is what it is.

Writers don't get offered money at the broke end of the market because the broke end thinks that "push comes to shove, I can write, but I can't make costumes".

Writers get paid by people with big enough budgets to pay writers. But there are hundreds of writers for each of those.

If you want to get paid for a screenplay, write a best selling novel, and when you get to sell the rights, make it conditional on your writing the screenplay, a draft of which you just happen to have on your person :-)

4 years, 4 months ago - Matthew Lyne-Watt

I have to disagree with you there, Marlom. There are many sites that you can paid to be a screenwriter, even by those without big budgets. Fiverr and Upwork for example. I have made a steady income on Fiverr for over a year and have worked on all sorts, from music videos to features. Whether all those projects gets made is another question! The point is, you get paid for your service. For some reason this site operates a little differently in the sense that you can get away with advertising services for free. It's similar on Mandy. I saw one post where an indie production company were looking for a "staff writer" for a TV show idea they had. They wanted you to apply for the position by completing a task, to then being hired to write multiple episodes, treatments and the like, all for free.

I'm just saying that there should be a line somewhere.

4 years, 2 months ago - Lee 'Wozy' Warren

If you are an experienced screenwriter with credits, then you're probably in the wrong place to offer your skills. SP is a place, mainly, for newbies, low-to-no budget filmmakers etc...

If your experience is none to small and You've got no credits to your name, then perhaps doing a few 'expenses only' jobs it's a good way to step up the ladder and building a solid list of credits to your name.

But if suggest being vigilant as to which projects you board as you want to find projects with the best chance of getting off the ground because credits for poorly made films might just hurt and not help your career prospects.

4 years ago - olivia post

Totally agree with your point and great to see that is being discussed, i often see a similar approach to actors who are asked to perform for free all the time.I recently worked (acted) for a director for free but when i asked if he would film a short piece in return his response was the he wouldn't work for free......

4 years ago - Garry Clarkson

One of the reasons I left film school in 1994 and never worked in it until recently when I decided to make my own independent films rather than 'work' for others. I still get those 'it will be good experience' calls as a 56 year old award winning photographer. At least you don't have to carry 15k worth of camera equipment (not to mention running the car to put them in) as a screenwriter. A laptop and your imagination is all that's needed. Write and produce your own film is my humble advice.

4 years ago - Adam Ethan Crow

As a working screenwriter who began by working for free, I do okay - I have to say that almost everyone who chooses to work in this industry, at some point, will work for free.
However, you have to weigh every project on its merits. If you write a short film that might get into festivals, you may get your name out there - you many not. But no on pays for short film screenplays.
I wrote a short called Warhol; it won a few awards that put me in front of James M. Vernon (Evita, Hacksaw Ridge) and got me my first paid writing job. From that came my next paid job. I now get paid to write scripts for some prominent producers because I can show them examples of paid work I have done.
I'd written and produced four shorts that I'd spent around 12K on all together, and they'd got me no recognition at all. Then I did Warhol. And guess what, Warhol was better than the others I'd written. It was good, it was different and people noticed.
So write something great, not just 'good enough.' Then find the right producer, and you will get paid. If you can't find the right producer, then you need to work harder. How many film festivals do you attend to try and meet people every year? How many emails do you send a week chasing interest in your project? If you are not doing these things, you are not working hard enough. Sorry, but it's true. ...Or, and I hate to say it, maybe your work is not good enough? My early work was not got enough to get me attention.
This is such a challenging industry; it is so hard. You have to work harder than the next person, go further, do more - or maybe being a screenwriter is not for you.
These are just my thoughts - Adam