ASK & DISCUSS INDEX

7 years, 4 months ago - John Lubran

Hello Peter, I've just subscribed to your Greenlaw site. As yet I have no idea as to what this might be but hoping for a source for new ideas. Having said that I can only imagine that every conceivable business model for crowd funding already exists, including the growing number of outfits proposing differing agency type services for connecting producers with funders. We can of course already discover much detail from those established Web based platforms like Kickstarter, Indigogo and the like. There's also several specialist platforms for both narrow commercial genre's and charitable types.

Aspirational targets are central to this issue in separating low and ultra low budget projects that apart from the Walter Mitty ones don't really have any immediate aim of commercial success or significant distribution. There's differing reasons as to why these projects exist at all but they usually have some valid purpose.

The issue is though, why would complete strangers want to support a project?

There's clearly a relationship between the scale of quantum and the scale of objective. With film, the 'Crowd Funders' are rarely in it for personal financial gain. Extrapolating how this fact should inform us is not rocket science. So if it's not for the money what's making folk give? Apart from a handful of bigger budget successful crowd funding, it seems car that the more significant successes have had profoundly ultruistic appeal. What is deemed to be worthy is always as diverse and contradictory as are political opinions. All that's required is that a projects ethic strikes a chord with a viable number of people. A great example of an early success has been Franny Armstrong dramatised documentary 'The Age of Stupid' an apocalyptic warning of a possible ecological disaster that raised, after a number of phases between initial campaigning, through successful production and multifaceted creative distribution projects, the best part of a million. Franny and her team have hugely generous in detailing every step of thier method.

So in a nutshell, other than for micro budget projects, raising a significant budget from a crowd of strangers for a fiction drama which has no profoundly resonant socio-political-ethical purpose is nearly always an uphill struggle.

Operating a crowd funding facilitating platform is a business model that requires a great many micro budget campaigns not unlike operating a lottery. Foe every winner there has to be a great many more also ran, some of whom do raise thier micro budgets. For the facilitators it's a percentages game. For projects aspiring to industry standard levels of funding through a few thousand strangers ones creativity and nouse has to extend beyond a zombies, martial arts and even delicately nuanced high brow dramas.

There's every reason to be optomistic in this ironically crowded crowd funding arena. But it's not for everyone.

7 years, 4 months ago - Vasco de Sousa

Crowdfunding is all about how many friends (or existing fans) you have who are willing to give you money. It's also about the crowdfunding sites, and their fee processing partners, fleecing off their 5-10%.

We did raise some money, online and off. But, it wasn't worth it, the time we spent we would have probably raised more money working at Tesco. (I had a possible opportunity to go on a high-paying tour at the time as well, so it feels like a total washout.) One of my old friends stopped talking to me after I started my crowdfunding campaign, which was the big loss.

Pi, Darren Aronofsky's first film, was crowdfunded in a way, but without the silicon valley go-between. So, that 5-10% was used toward production. And, they were investments, so no wasted time coming up with lame rewards.

Also, an old Scottish Macbeth film from the 1990s used a similar tactic to today's crowdfunded films, of investors getting to be extras, and other perks. The film apparently stank (I never saw it.)

It apparently works best with documentaries. I suggest you look up a list of "most successful crowdfunded films" and contact the producers.

7 years, 4 months ago - John Lubran

Id just add my standard waiver. One ought not take ones own or any one else's case for a generality. Moving Vision crowd funded some of its productions long before the term became part of the language. It's significant that films of all kinds have in effect been crowd funded since for ever. It's a cocktail of creative marketing and having a marketable product. One of the main reasons for failure is that we can become overly enured by our own delusions of grandeur. Been there, done that and bought the T-shirt. The Internet has expernentially increased the available ways to reach out but this is far from being limited to the Crowd Funding facilitating Web sites. Those sites can be used productively as a part of a broader campaign. It's a considerable job of work but ultimately one is rarely able to polish a turd or sell a uselessly boring vanity. Exciting shit kicking vanities are however something else!

7 years, 4 months ago - Peter Storey

Thanks for the thoughtful answers, guys. Crowdfunding certainly isn't for everyone or every project, and the platforms are thronging with projects of limited merit. This diminishes the value of "crowdfunding" itself (in all its forms). If poor quality films are saturating the platforms, then it's harder for more worthwhile projects - like Vasco's - to get attention. Then it becomes cyclical - every bad or failed production devalues the whole.

However, I've been eyeing the situation on the other side of the Atlantic. Seed & Spark have built a solid rewards-based platform and, more importantly, a community which delivers industry-leading success rates. It's got a very definite ethos, so you know you can expect certain things from a Seed & Spark film. There's also Slated, which is very heavily populated with smart, connected industry people, as well as having a thorough set of criteria for selection. It's the opposite of dumb money - there's no stigma in having Slated $$$ in your production. By focusing on a single vertical, instead of mixing it up with drones and taco trucks, both of these platforms are doing very solid work for the filmmaking community.

There's also another very interesting trend in equity crowdfunding in other sectors, for example the big raises for Brewdog and other high profile companies, particularly with consumer products. The management of the campaigns has been taken out of the finance function, and is (jointly) overseen by very senior marketing executives as part of the broader marketing strategy. The idea is that it's about cementing a relationship with your superfans - they might love your stuff, and now they can become *literally* invested in your brand, which generates even more loyalty. Using a campaign as an overall marketing tool is touched upon in every crowdfunding-101 blog, but I think it's yet to be done really effectively in our industry.

I'd love to hear any more shooters war stories, keep em coming. Vasco - if you have no objection, I'll message you off list, I'd love to hear more details on why it didn't work out for you, if you wouldn't mind sharing.

7 years, 4 months ago - Jane Sanger

I find it very hard and it's getting harder. Having done 4 campaigns and none reached target. They were for drama films and as John says above in a saturated market who and why does anyone want to back your film? I presently have a 4th campaign on the go.
However a friend of mine has funded his whole film at around £35,000 on 5 or 6 crowdfunds and is very successful,. The subject is homelessness in a drama and I feel this is a heart tugger and people are also more inclined to give to young people too, which he is.

Another friend who was successful raising £15,000 spent ages on it and a lot of money advertising, plus putting her own money in to reach target on kickstarter so the real money she raised was nearer £10,000 by the time commission had also been paid....but that is good.
I just used green inbox ($29.00) which thunderbolts out the same message to loads of your facebook friends promoting your crowdfund ...waste of time.They have offered a refund but lets see if I actually get it.
Now I am going to try Krowdster, which gives you superbackers and twitter help. Will let you know if that is worth it when I finish.
I wanted to do Speed and Spark too as they have a good track record with 75% reaching target but you have to have a fiscal sponsor in US or setting up an account there, both difficult.
The average raise on crowdfund is $2,500 so don't get your hopes up.

7 years, 4 months ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin

Just a side note - platforms and fees have been mentioned, but that's the best case scenario for *donations*, whereas many people will be incentivised by "rewards". T-shirts are common, but people often don't do their research and the costs involved are way out of proportion to the benefit - you're getting into the leisurewear business instead of the movie business at that stage. Don't forget you need to package and ship and deal with returns for wrong sizes, people moved away, whatever, all at a cost to you. DVD's still cost money to burn, print, package and ship, and all the time that takes to organise and get right. With platform fees you can end up with a few quid for a £20 T-shirt, so your campaign to raise £x needs to raise £4x through some crowd platforms to have cash left over to make a film!