ASK & DISCUSS INDEX

6 years, 10 months ago - Marlom Tander

Finance is where you need to join the dance. In a previous life part of my role was financing "normal" biz, in an area where funders were well known and deals followed relatively simple rules.

When I started to mess around with film I took one look at the finance side and decided to stick to writing as the focus of my activity:-) (I could see just how much time it would take if I went that route, and I lacked that time).

What follows applies if you are seeking film investment for commercial productions. If you are flat out non commercial, then you're really into seeking grant money from orgs with brief to get made what you want to film. Not my area.

My view - film finance sources finance PEOPLE THEY KNOW, with projects the like. In that order.

You basically need to subscribe to every source/publication/market monitor sheet/newsletter/site you can find, and be willing to invest the time and money going where the money is - major markets, and, as you get to identify individual people, take them to lunch.

Seriously - when you find out that Joe Blogs is mid to senior at the Film Money People, say something like "I'm a new producer trying to understand the film finance game. I'd like to buy you lunch in order to pick your brains about how it all works"

It's an effective approach (for anyone, exploring any new market) because it tells the person that you respect them enough to spend money talking to them. Everyone likes a nice lunch, and most people like to show off their knowledge. DON'T TRY AND PITCH them - you really are asking who is who, how it works, what should know, what are common mistakes, what advice do they have. Only pitch if they ask you what your project is. (If they like you, they'll ask. It would be rude not to). But keep the pitch short, pretty much concept and price - "It's Oliver Twist, set in modern day Nigeria. Budget about 500K". If they want to know more, they'll ask you to expand. But they'll probably only do that if they really want to know more. So if they don't like classic reworking, or 500K is too much/too little then their polite "Sounds exciting" doesn't mean "it's rubbish", it means "not our remit".

When you think you know enough, try to get pitch meetings with the right people. And some of these will be "I was chatting with Joe Blogs last week about a project. He said it might suit you". Market Intelligence makes sales.

If you want to go on courses, I'd look for ones run by, or presented by, current film financiers. Because they will be talking about NOW, rather than 5 years ago.

Good news - you sell SaaS, you know how this lunch thing works :-)

6 years, 10 months ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin

Marlom as ever gives great advice. I can offer less specific comment, but may be useful.

Just about everyone loses money investing in films. Go to the market at Cannes, see how many are for sale, see how few end up in cinemas or being big hits. You don't invest in a film with your head, you do it with your heart, so any approaches need to reflect that. There are a few finance organisations that will aggregate a lot of smaller investors, they will be more hard nosed about it, but will not accept any bullshit as they make their money on churn, not hits.

Every single project is funded differently, there's a different mix of private backers, tax credits, who gets what money out in which order at which interest rate, etc. The ones who get films made are usually very clever creative accountants who will hover just the right side of the line and have some exotic investment vehicles they design to take highest advantage of tax schemes. Then there's the ones who step half an inch too far and get caught and go to prison.

Just saying it's complex, it's cutthroat, and a warning that you will meet lots of people who are naive, delusional, or straight up crooks. It's a rite of passage almost, but no mistake you'll meet them. Keep your eyes and ears well peeled, ask your peers over a pint. The guy in the private plane buying everyone champagne is more likely to be doing so off the back of his last con job than legit business accumen. I've seen "media investors" who have lied and fucked up projects for me appear on "Can't pay, we'll take it away" - with nothing but a few designer goods to take to auction. Take nothing at face value, you will meet these people, they will seek you out and offer to turn your £50k cash into a leveraged £1M loan, or whatever.

If you really want to get into movie finance, be a chartered accountant, or at least pay a good one to help you through.

6 years, 10 months ago - Christian James Woods

Thank you both for your great advice.

Marlon, I now understand it is very much about schmoozing in the right circles, and as you say this is something I am aware of. I would be interested to know where these circles are and of any specific websites/meet ups I can get my foot in the door of? If you have any.

Paddy - thank you for your forewarning. It sounds like film financing is some thing that could make for quite an interesting movie in and of itself, I suppose Get Shorty kind of straddles this realm of crooks and crime paying for films. I will heed your warning and be careful of people trying to swindle me.

6 years, 10 months ago - Vasco de Sousa

One thing a lot of people miss out on is the different kinds of film have different ways of filmmaking.

I wouldn't say each film is 100% different, but a sequel with an experienced team is going to be different from a first time filmmaker with no connections.

Most first films are funded through friends of friends. It's like that through most businesses, the Facebook founders used their network. People don't like hearing this, but it's true from Hollywood to Bollywood.

When you have a sequel, or an adaptation of a popular work, a lot of studios will want to fund it completely, or through a co-production.

There was a distribution course on Futurelearn this year, in which the big distributors spoke about how their films came to be. Basically, it concluded that this is an extremely tough time for films that aren't developed by distributors. I think registration is closed, but it may come back. Futurelearn has other courses (which are free to begin with) on the business of film.

I also learned from an instructor in Arizona who saw a lot of business plans. And, from venture capitalists (film is not a popular investment at the moment, crypto and other IT is much more glamorous.)

Raising money is the easiest part of making a good film. Doing the preparation necessary, to create a viable product for investors, can sometimes be more work, and of course, having the money doesn't guarantee anything. It's like selling anything, when you have a faulty product, and no pitch, or lack confidence in yourself or team, it's much harder. And, why invest in your film when they can invest directly in Netflix or Disney?

I wouldn't say everything changes every year. The main thing that changes is the numbers (inflation), and there are changes in regulation, but in principle, Walt Disney used a lot of the same techniques that are being used today. The toughest part will be creating something good enough to compete in the crowded marketplace.

6 years, 10 months ago - Christian James Woods

Hey Vasco - really good feedback. Like you say the film product has to be compelling to raise finance. And I am working away on that part and building a team I trust so I am confident I will get there with this element. I am looking for places where I ca nstart to meet these film investors. I will take a look at Futurelearn and have seen NFTS have a short course on raising finance for a feature so will explore that too. I appreciate your insights and I think you raised a good point about doing the preparation to create a a product. That is what I am looking to learn about how do they assess films as a product from a business perspective and something they can sell. Think the NFTS short course on raising finance for a feature goes over that a bit. Thanks again for your time and efforts and response.

6 years, 10 months ago - Jane Sanger

Hi Christian,
I am thinking of holding courses on funding shorts as I know how to do that and have won many awards. I have been trying to understand feature film financing for about 3 years and I am still not there yet. As the others say each film is unique and I would say most definitely it;s who you know. So you may have a group of wealthy friends if you are lucky but nothing comes for nothing, you have to spend time with them supporting their stuff and be seen as a good trustworthy person, this is a subtle thing but you know what I mean ....BUT don't go there. Leave friends out of it as you will loose them if your project goes belly up.
So there is a producer and financiers 5 day workshop at Cannes, go to that because you network.
Go to Cannes and network , but as some one said people lie through their teeth and dont rely on money or promises til money is in the bank. The champagne and beautiful people at Cannes bring out the worst lying, bullshitting pricks so beware.
One financier told me 70% of people who say they will invest fail to do so in the long run even up to the day before they should part with the money.
AFM I imagine is another good hunting ground and indeed many film festivals.
There are various bodies who fund films, so you need a good presentation, and investment pack and you pitch it to people like Ingenious, Premiere etc
There are co producers so if you meet someone at Cannes who likes your film then you agree to make it together for half each of the budget
There are various trusts and bodies who will give a proportion of the budget when you have the rest and can prove it.
There are Closing the Gap funds for films that have 70% if the budget and need the rest
There are tax incentives where you claim back part of your budget here in UK and abroad
There are various funding committees around GB who have money to give films if you film it in their area.
And so it goes on. No one person is likely to fund your whole film. We learnt at Cannes that on an average $2-3 million film there are usually 17 funding sources to make the total.
One person I know funded their whole film on crowdfunding over 5 attempts filming it piecemeal.
When I have made a few features I will run the best course you can think of and also pointers to the sharks...BUT lol! it wont be ready yet as I need to make a few more films and am only just filming no 1 and 2.
Good luck!

6 years, 10 months ago - John Lubran

I'm starting a 'how to fund your feature film' course. Fees start at £250,000 per person.

6 years, 10 months ago - Christian James Woods

ahahaha when does it start? What's your bank details? Im in!

6 years, 10 months ago - John Lubran

If it seems that the quality or value of something that one is selling is struggling in the marketplace, adding another zero or two to its price works wonders.

I loved Banksy"s self shredding £1m artwork recently sold at auction.

6 years, 10 months ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin

>>Go to Cannes and network , but as some one said people lie through their teeth and dont rely on money or promises til money is in the bank. The champagne and beautiful people at Cannes bring out the worst lying, bullshitting pricks so beware.<<

That last sentence has a ring of authentic experience about it ;-)

6 years, 9 months ago - Christian James Woods

Jane - thank you for your insights. I will PM you.

6 years, 9 months ago - Marlom Tander

YES "One financier told me 70% of people who say they will invest fail to do so in the long run even up to the day before they should part with the money."

An investment should never be spent until the money is in the bank.

This isn't just film, this is any business, but there is always the temptation to spend - e.g. to secure locations, accommodation, cast and crew - ahead of cash flow, esp if you need to shoot at a specific time of year and a delay will push you back 12 months. The time you break that rule, that's a time your absolutely committed for sure mate golden investor drops you.

6 years, 9 months ago - Jane Sanger

Good point from John. Don’t take any notice of the budgets on IMDb because he is right a film actually made for £500,000 might say it’s budget is £1.2 million and suddenly everyone flocks to you to fund the next one. Not everyone does this of course. Always boost yourself and your film budget upwards - finding funds for a 250,000 film or lower is harder than getting funded for £1 mill and upwards. It’s all perceptions.

6 years, 9 months ago - Christian James Woods

I like this insight around going for more than needed. This whole thread reminds me of Wolf of Wall Street and Matthew McConaughey's "Fewgazi, Fugazi" line. It certainly is a conspicuous yet elusive subject.

Thank you all for your advice, please see my notes below:

My Key Takeaways
1. Films are financed with the heart not head
2. No two films are financed the same way
3. Be careful of Flash franks with no real money in the bank.
4. The preparation, product and pitch are the key elements to raising money, which follows naturally if the project is good enough.
5. It's who you know.
6. Do not trust champagne drunk promises at Cannes, deals not done until money is in the bank - 70% investors say yea & don't.
7. AFM - good hunting ground and so are many film festivals.
8 No one source $2/3M film = 17 funding sources.
9. Crowdfunding can be used to raise funds and create films chunk by chunk.
10. Always boost yourself and film budget upwards - lower budgets i.e. £250K is harder than finding £1M - law of large numbers.

My Action Steps
1. Collate Film Financing Information - Subscribe to every source/publication/market monitor sheet/newsletter/site you can find.
2. Build Film Distribution & Finance Network - take people at film finance and distribution companies in major markets to lunch.
3. Pitch To Right People - Package projects up relevant to the distributor (use point 1& 2 - Market Intelligence makes sales.)
4. Take Film Finance Course By Finance Companies - Relevant to now NFTS?: https://nfts.co.uk/financing-your-feature-film
5. Sign Up To Futurelearn - courses by distributors on how they got their films made
6. Cannes Film Production & Finance Course - Go to this to network, learn and develop point 3.
7. Go to major film festivals; AFM, Research the best.
8. Create good presentation, and investment pack and pitch it to people like Ingenious, Premiere etc.
9. Find Co-Producers - people willing to invest along side yourself.
10. Locate Trusts and Bodies - who give portions of investment when films have reached a certain point - closing gap funds 70%
11. Research Tax Incentives - UK or regional benefits to filming.
12. Win The Lottery - :-)

6 years, 9 months ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin

Good précis :)

6 years, 9 months ago - alexander forsey

https://www.financeyourfeaturefilm.com/?fbclid=IwAR3QU-NI0AN202z_weQgH51W1wPioagporothbU4l1rnVzmU1aJMrA0wA6A

6 years, 9 months ago - Christian James Woods

Thank you Alexander - course looks very well put together. Thank you.

6 years, 9 months ago - Jordan Bunton-Williams

Hey Christian, I co-run a business called JORDANA CREATIVES. We are crowdfunding consultants who specialise in rewards based crowdfunding for creative projects.

Here’s the link: https://jordanacreatives.co.uk

6 years, 9 months ago - Christian James Woods

Hi Jordan, this looks very interesting thank you for the information. Christian

6 years, 6 months ago - Dean Owen-Sims

Hi Christian, I would recommend the Raindance online courses - the producers series is good value, moneyball for film, Simon Hunters courses are very very real and hands on...
There's also some free courses through FutureLearn which would give you an understanding of film financing and distribution.
Ultimately, all the courses should tell you to work out how much you can sell the project for and then 'back into your budget', You can make the £5m or the £5000 version of your film but don't spend too much or you'll never recoup!
Good luck! D