ASK & DISCUSS INDEX

8 years, 4 months ago - Lee 'Wozy' Warren

What on earth are you talking about when you say "De facto"? Do you know what that means? Where you not supposed to be the producer but did it anyway?

Firstly, you should have set up agreements with the crew BEFORE you started shooting. Trying to back track now may cause you some issues. Depending how the shoot went, how the crew felt about you and how you approach this after the fact - they could tell you to 'go f*ck youself..."

If you are asking about getting agreement from the crew so that if the film makes some money in the future then they have no right to participate in the revenue as profits, then its a pretty shitty thing to do - after the fact. Should have made that clear from the beginning and given the crew the option to work with you or not based upon those facts. If you want to do it so that if you sell it you have a clear title of ownership, then thats something slightly different. But again, you should have done this up front.

If I'm wrong about the above, then I'm sorry, but to me, this post sounds like it doesn't bode well for your 'de facto' producer skills. Personally I hate any member of the crew that tries to screw the others who have given their time for free.

Better luck next time.

8 years, 4 months ago - Sergio Falchi

Dear Wozy, probably I 've explained my point not in a decent way...With "the facto" I just mean that this is a zero budget film, not that me and the crew were supposing we were doing a "collective produced film". I was very clear since the first approach that this was and will be "my film" , "my project" and they were all more than happy to join the project as crew , everyone for his/her role. I am talking about a very small crew...(DOP-Camera operator+ Assistant director/Editor+Sound recordist+PA) and for the post a sound designer and a composer yet to find. So with the "DE Facto" I just mean that I spent only a few hundred euros for catering+Scenes Items+fuel and expendables, not that I am not "the producer", just that I didn't pay anyone, but it's more than clear for everyone since the first step. I know that I am a newbie and really with no experience..I don't want to screw anyone...just don't know how to proceed, (if I have to) in order to save copyright, distribution and in a word, the"ownership" of the short. By the way, by voice, the crew are all absolutely happy about the output, the mood of the project and the situation and also the fact that they're just helping me to build a film...it's like a bid on me for the next absolutely paid projects!

8 years, 4 months ago - Jane Sanger

Ok what would be fairer is to have got everyone to sign a release form before you started. It's unlikely you will make money from a short but not impossible. Now make a release form that says in the event of any prize money at festival or selling the film to broadcasting channel you get 50% and the remainder is divided equally between the others. They will probably sign that.

8 years, 4 months ago - Jane Sanger

A blouse about the films rights being yours can be in the document.

8 years, 4 months ago - Jane Sanger

Clause not blouse!

8 years, 4 months ago - Lee 'Wozy' Warren

All you need to say then was "...I am the producer on this no budget film."

As Jane says, type up and print a 'release form' and have everyone sign it. There are several different types (general, talent, minor, materials, location...) you could use or just make one generic one, as it's only a short.

And do this for post before you start the edit, grade, sound mix etc...

8 years, 4 months ago - Peter Carroll

Sergio,

The type of legal agreement you are probably considering drawing-up should seek to avoid a member of the crew contesting your ownership of the film and therefore asserting their own ownership, distributing the film for their own ends and/ or suing you for a share of any profits.

It's absolutely vital to have this in place before you start or else it's legality is questionable.

If any of of the scenarios I just mentioned do arise it's unlikely that any such agreement introduced now would hold-up in court even if it were to be signed at this late date.

When you started working with the others in the absence of a written legal agreement you still entered into a contract with them, the terms of which are unclear and therefore contestable in court.

On this one occasion my advice would be to continue without seeking to draught a "Legal" agreement at all as it would would probably do more harm than good. It could even scupper your film before it is finished not to mention your relationships with the crew.

What you have ,in effect, done is form a film-making co-operative with your crew, entitling them to a share of ownership, any profits and a say in how it is to be distributed.

Finish your film in the spirit you started it, as a co-operative venture with you in charge. A brilliant and Inspirational leader from start to finish.

8 years, 4 months ago - Sergio Falchi

Thank you all for your advice!...what about a simple "Copyright waiver"? the one available in SP "Resources" for unpaid collaboration? please check it if you gave a moment. or just read this one below..it's OK or still too pretentious?feel free to suggest changes!


COPYRIGHT WAIVER FORM


PRODUCER:

Sergio Falchi
Via Delle Azalee 28
09012 Capoterra (CA) ITALY

Date: 17/03/2017

ECCOMI (working title)
ROLE: ______________________________________


I, _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ agree to collaborate on this short film and to assign to Sergio Falchi, with full title guarantee, the following:

i) all of my rights, title, interest and property in Eccomi (the "Intellectual Property Rights");

ii) the full and exclusive benefit of all the Intellectual Property Rights including all forms of protection and all rights, privileges and advantages appertaining thereto;

iii) the right to recover and to bring proceedings to recover damages and/or to obtain other remedies in respect of infringement of the Intellectual Property Rights whether committed before or after the date of this Agreement.

AND to hold the same unto Sergio Falchi absolutely.

Further, I hereby agree to waive all moral rights in the Intellectual Property Rights.

The nature of the project and my role in it has been explained to me and I have agreed to collaborate on this project for NO FEE.

I understand that this film (or part of it) may be distributed by the producer in any medium in any part of the world.

I shall, at the request of Sergio Falchi, sign all instruments, applications or other documents and to do all such acts as shall be reasonably required by Sergio Falchi to enable Sergio Falchi or its nominee to enjoy the full and exclusive benefit of the Intellectual Property Rights and to fully and effectively vest the same in Sergio Falchi including, where necessary, the registration of Sergio Falchi's title in the Intellectual Property Rights in the appropriate intellectual property office at which the Intellectual Property Rights are (or at the nomination of the Sergio Falchi shall be) registered.


Signed .........................................

DATE .........................................

8 years, 4 months ago - Sergio Falchi

Peter I am thinking about doing nothing and just go on with the "trust mood"...only frightened about possible changes in the future about the film route and so the atitude of the crew towards it and me...I don't want to screw anyone...for example if successsfull in a local contest I am also thinking to distribute in reasonable quote the prize(a very littel one) but I just want to be safe for everythings now and ever....rights included

8 years, 4 months ago - Lee 'Wozy' Warren

Let's be honest here - most filmmakers who make low or no budget films do so without agreements/contracts or even insurance. They do so through lack on knowledge or understanding or use the lack of funds as an excuse not to do so.

Whatever the reason, that's how films normally get made at this level. You're not in the minority of doing it this way, even though it's clearly wrong and will hamper your future success if you were to continue on this path, but we don't hear too many stories of the bad side of things happening.

Chalk it up to experience and then go make your next film the right way. Leave this one as the co-operative that Peter suggests.

8 years, 4 months ago - Sergio Falchi

Yes Wozy, this time, the very first for me, I can assure you that it's the lack of knowledge and the lack of attention for this details in the days before shooting when I was almost in panic...so do you think that also just the Copyright waiver isn't a good idea?

8 years, 4 months ago - Lee 'Wozy' Warren

Personally, I would never use a template without checking with a solicitor. It may look and sound right, but for your particular set of needs it might miss something. Im not a lawyer and therefore cant offer you advice on whether its right for you or not. Take legal advice.

You could join BECTU and get free legal advice. I think thats still part of the membership?!?!

Woz

8 years, 4 months ago - Peter Carroll

I was presented with a similar form upfront when asked to perform in an "unpaid role" in an end-of-year student film recently and I refused straightaway on principle. I'd have been even angrier if asked to sign it after having done the work. Things like that really raise my hackles. Start as you mean to go on. If you are are concerned about the money you have invested already think of it as an investment in your-self and your education. The best way to protect that investment is to produce a finished film that can showcase your talents for future commercial work. Don't jeopardize the film this close to completion. It could be a corker and lead onto better things.

8 years, 4 months ago - Marlom Tander

I think that technically what you have just created - by NOT documenting things properly - is a Partnership, which enjoys "joint and several" liability. (Even worse, if the project was not commercial then you and your crew accidentally formed an Unincorporated Association and everyone is absolutely liable for everything, aka "house owners lose their homes").

As such, the default position is that everyone involved is an equal partner. With equal rights to income, but possibly a personal liability for liabilties of the partnership.

They have probably been deemed to have granted rights to the common purpose, but that common purpose has perhaps not been documented...

So, give thanks that no one got hurt.

So, what your partners want is to be shot of the liabilities. In theory if you ran up marketing expenses and didn't pay up, a creditor could argue that it was a partnership/association expense and thus go after the rest of the cast and crew, or whichever have a house...

What you want is control. What they want is respect, and no liabilities.

I suggest a simple document that :-

a) Grants you the rights and responsibility to submit the film to festivals in the next 6 months.

b) Allows everyone to use the film as they need for their own showreel and promotional purposes. This use might be restricted (to short clips) until after the date of the last festival showing, at which point they can all put the whole thing on their YT / Vimeo etc as they wish.

c) States that any revenues (ha!) will go into a pool, and shared equally between all participants. If revenues are under £200 after 24 months, will be donated to Charity.

8 years, 4 months ago - Sergio Falchi

Ok Peter, so you're suggesting me just to not ask about it and let things happen only trusting in the good faith of the crew members about the property of the film as clearly recognized as mine as they previously assured me by their own words? I am not frightened about investment, I am probably hurt from what happened before this short...a screenplay sent to a Famous(locally) Director for an opinion( not a cold email but something that happened after a meeting with him) with a consequent silence and following into a steal of the idea, slightly and smartly changed to avoid copyright issues and filmed, without telling me a word about it nor a consequent credit/title/) within a few months despite it was registered at WGAwest....I know that it's really different but it's just a feeling of fear about it that is still inside of me. By the way, the story of my short is yet about the same topic, elements of my previous one, so that it's a kickstarter for me(hopefully) but also an act of justice against a thief. Please note that the crew previously know this situation very well by my own precise words and they're OK about this.

8 years, 4 months ago - Sergio Falchi

OK Peter and Marlom, thank you for your advice, Maybe a way could be the Marlom "form" mixed with the "official one, so more balnced between control and positive attitude towards all...

8 years, 4 months ago - John Lubran

Not so sure that a court would make any definitive inference about the legal relationship between Sergio and the crew where there's no manifest form of agreement in place and where any such inference is challenged. I don't know where folks get the notion that fundamental, and dare I say it, constitutional imperatives can be overthrown by mere judges. I'm equally sceptical that a properly structured post action agreement holds any less force than a pre action agreement.

The issue is one of good faith. Can you rely upon your crew agreeing to written terms acknowledging you as the producer, director and author of the film. Would they, in good faith, agree to how any benefits, such as financials and or credits, ought to be shared? Only you can anticipate what your crew might expect. The probability is that the main benefit from a low budget short will be its promotional value to those who made it according to their roles.

I'd also not be too concerned about any implied joint and several liabilities especially because there's no manifest agreement. In the event of some cause of claim arising and unless a specific personal action can be attributed to individuals a challenge denying liability in joint venture would have to be disproven, leaving the liability to the person or persons manifestly in charge. Unless one can be confident of little or no risk, insurance is essential.

8 years, 4 months ago - Dan Selakovich

I really wish I could get it through to young writers that the WGA has zero legal teeth. It's only slightly better than the "poor man's copyright." (Sending yourself the script with a post mark date). Scripts need to be registered with the government copyright office.

As for your current problem, I'd let sleeping dogs lie, and just take your chances. If a festival requires this paper work, THEN go back to your crew and explain that you can't get into a festival without the releases. I'm sure they'd be happy to help you out. After all (I think it's still this way), shorts can't be listed in IMDB without a proper screening--like a festival. Everybody is going to want those screen credits.

8 years, 4 months ago - Marlom Tander

John - no court is ever going to be asked about it unless something goes badly wrong. Sergio can go ahead without paperwork and it would be up to one of the group to decide to sue. The real risk to group members is during shooting - someone - esp someone NOT involved - gets injured and there was no insurance, so who gets sued? First up, the putative producer and/or individual clearly responsible. But if they have little/no money then it can be anyone involved, i.e, who has deepest pockets.

The point being that this is for undocumented arrangements. No one should ever have an undocumented arrangement because undocumented arrangements where dispute later arises and it ends up in court, are at the mercy of the court's interpretation. Nor should they have an uninsured one.

8 years, 4 months ago - Holly Jacobson

I don't want to sound harsh, but very few shorts make any money and even fewer go on to win an oscar. Unless you behave like a muppet your crew aren't suddenly going to want to scupper this film's chances. I actually agree with Peter - if you're not paying then don't take the micky. It's obvious that if a person writes, directs and brings the whole project together that it is their film - but seriously I'd want a crew who all felt that it was "our" film. If it was a feature film and/ or people were getting paid it would be a different story. As an aside, as well as making films I've acted in a bunch of shorts (maybe 50+) - the better projects have strangely been the ones that are also most humble and it's been the films that are really pretty bad where someone has been ultra precious about it all being theirs. Good will is more important than being legalistic at this stage I'd say - be a team player and welcome everyone to feel proud of the film you made together.

8 years, 4 months ago - Sergio Falchi

Tahnk you all, John, Dan, Marlom and Holly! I think that you're right..it's all about the mood of the situation...I certainly don't want to seem or to be unpolite or not faithfull...I will go for ask an opinion about the need/opportunity of yhis paper and then just follow the general attitude and feelings towards it, going smoothly in one direction or nothing at all. I think this is the right thing to do...following "the gut" of the crew and mine when meeting up and nothing more.

8 years, 4 months ago - Sergio Falchi

I choose to go for your advice Peter and Holly! All about friendship and good faith both for copyright ,property and titles...this is the right way. Good will and to be trustworthy must be the only line to follow....for bigger project with payment and maybe possible serious earnings about distribution things will be managed differently since the beginning....this is not the situation and not the mood of mine but also our project. Thanks everybody for the suggestions!

8 years, 4 months ago - Lee 'Wozy' Warren

Always, always, stay within the law. You not only risk your own future, but that of others as well. Good will has nothing to do with doing the right thing/being legal. So if your suggesting that good will trumps doing the right thing, then I worry for you and those who will work for you. Lives have been lost and lives have been destroyed by not doing the right thing on a film set.

Don't get the two mixed up. They are not mutually exclusive. You can do the right thing, legally, and still build and retain good will...

But I totally agree, "...be a team player and welcome everyone to feel proud of the film you made together."

8 years, 4 months ago - Sergio Falchi

Wozy I am totally with you. This time things went in this way...The next one, I Will certainly go within paper and law, hopefully with a micro/low budget but with a budget, so that anything will be not carefully planned also in this area. Good will and good attitude first of all obiouvsly but...with everything clear and sound since the beginning, with a smile but safely and firmly. This time too late and not in the mood of this "adventure"...I don't want to force anyone or seems to be a "exploiter". Let's see about how things will go. This is our film but everybody agree that this is My film when caming to festival or local screenings and in titles I will be credited as Produced written and directed by....and A film by...etc...

8 years, 4 months ago - Sergio Falchi

....."will be carefully"...the "not" is a typo