ASK & DISCUSS INDEX

9 years, 11 months ago - Chris Bogle

Sorry I wrote that last post late last night and just read it back - didn't mean to sound so negative!!

I think my point is that you have to be really, really competitive in the corporate market these days and that means being a full package - having a brilliant reel, being able to sell yourself (or have someone who can do that), and preferably having a niche. John's right, you should be making about £1K per minute for content to make sure you're covering your costs, but also allowing your business to grow if that's what you want.

9 years, 11 months ago - Alex Jacob

Yup... As Dan says a good showreel builds a client base. I made a charity film for my daughters school and off the back of that I am now inundated with work from impressed parents and friends who need corporate films and or music video's.

9 years, 11 months ago - John Lubran

Corporate and commercials cover a very broad spectrum; anything between £100 and £1,000,000 per minute. Whilst we've had a couple of big budget jobs the typical budget remains the same £1,000 per minute that it was twenty years ago. So Chris is right about money being 'king' over content in the promo market, that's why we don't chase that work anymore. However in the crowd funding/front loaded market, content is everything.

9 years, 11 months ago - Chris Bogle

Experience and having a great reel. I had a background as an editor so knew the lie of the land but I had an non compete agreement when I left so had to start from scratch with a reel, couldn't use any of my old stuff publicly.

I started my company by hiring an old PD150 and shooting a short promo for a mate's firm, for free. I then went out and shot loads of images of people, places and cut together a short show-reel. I set up a good website and a company, and got on the phone for months trying to tout my services. Managed to blagg free PR from local business support services, ranked the site on Google, did some contra deals with a graphics company to get some branding.

It is crucial to get a good reel together though. Corp vid is incredibly competitive now and there are no barriers to entry, so if you want to be charging decent rates you need to better than the 000's of kids out there charging buttons for not-bad DSLR work.

9 years, 10 months ago - Lawrence Alexander

Hi Gary,

First thing I would say is that there is work out there.

I would suggest doing bits of work as a freelancer for production companies while developing your own production company. That way you are bringing some cash, doing what you love and building up the contacts and skills.

Then I would offer to make a film for a charity for free or expenses. Then make a great film and use it as a calling card.

Best of luck

9 years, 11 months ago - Chris Bogle

It's a tough market in the promo sector. I wish I could say content was king - just did a set of films for a client, so impressed were they that they remodelled their whole campaign around the video content, then called me today to ask why I wouldn't do a half hourly reduced shooting rate. *sigh* I wish it was an isolated case but I'm up against freelances who charge anything north of £50 a day, and yeah they're usually s**te, but quite often they're not, they're graduates who can shoot well with a DSLR trying to get a toehold.

Then I had to have a chat with a camera op I've been using for years - he is very good - who wanted to put his daily rate up to £700. I had to say there was no corporate client outside of London who would pay that daily rate for a corp promo. Being a content producer is often akin to being caught in a vice. Content isn't king anymore, cost is.

That said, I'm terrible at marketing, and I think if you're a good salesman who happens to be good at shooting or vice versa you can make a fortune doing it.

9 years, 11 months ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin

A site like Wooshii might help if you're looking for clients for a reel. They have some pretty low budgets, but at least there's a bit if cash there for self-shooters to eke out a living.

9 years, 11 months ago - Marlom Tander

It's not the kit. It's not the technical skills. It's the sales and marketing.

You have to have someone who knows the hustle, or has the chops to learn on the job. (My guess would be that this is very much a networking based person to person close. You need a hustler with an appropriate contacts book rather than brilliance at phone sales or DM lead generation).

Everyone else just has to deliver on all the "yes, we can do that" that hustler promised client to land the deal.

If YOU are the hustler, great, get to work. If you're not, find one.

I speak as a hustler myself.

9 years, 11 months ago - John Lubran

I'm still none the wiser either. We've learned a bit about Gary's status and aspirations already. Setting up a company in the UK is ludicrously easy, a heritage flowing from centuries of piracy, both on the high seas and in the boardrooms. Marlom has touched on some aspects but I was under the impression that Gary was at the very beginning of his venture. Whilst there's no law of impirical physics that prevents anyone from establishing a viable film production company from scratch with only a minimum aquired skill, it must be unlikely. What might be less unlikely is when someone has sufficient wherewithal in terms of material and human resources to get a jump start.

Consider the fact that a massive over subscription of university and college trained eager beavers are also trying to establish company like entities. Pretty decent production and editing kit is relatively cheap, and getting better and cheaper by the day. So in this competitive and over subscribed market the only asset of any real value is creative ideas and businesses models. All other properties are insignificant

9 years, 11 months ago - Dan Selakovich

After Marlom's answer, I'm a bit confused. (And no fault to you, Marlom. It's all me.)

Gary, are you asking how to set up a corporation or Limited Liability company, and the legal and tax obligations of that? Or just how to get business and some cash flow? Possibly, I'm not the only one confused.

9 years, 11 months ago - John Lubran

Just in case the term 'reel ' is unclear Dan is refering to 'show reel'. The only qualifications that means anything at all, to a potential employer, commissioner or customer are credits and show reel. Clearly then the first base to be conquered is this

9 years, 11 months ago - John Lubran

I have to say that I'm grateful for not having to worry about trawling for commissions anymore, it was hard enough back in the day but at least there was money about then that was commensurate with the effort. These days, even though we do benefit from valuable inertia from those old days, our business model is pretty much all about commissioning ourselves through variations of crowd funding and other front loaded models. Creative thinking in terms of business models, as well content, can be a viable alternative to entrenched reality bubbles. As ever though, Content is King; even if bullshit can still baffle brains.

9 years, 11 months ago - Marlom Tander

There's also http://www.radarmusicvideos.com who provide a platform for bands to commission music vids. Though you'll probably be lucky to cover your costs it might be good for building some reel.