ASK & DISCUSS INDEX

9 years, 11 months ago - Dan Selakovich

All good advice from everyone! Why not start small? You mentioned sculpting. Is there a local teacher you've learned sculpting from? Why not do a short vignette on him/her? Or on you; why you started sculpting in the first place? Something 15 or 20 minutes long.

The amazing thing about filmmaking (or most art), is that you are never finished learning and getting better. Start small. Experiment. Find out what works and what doesn't. No need to spend hardly any cash at all when you're first starting out on documentaries. Just dip a toe in pond and see what happens.

9 years, 11 months ago - L. Sabia-Byrne

Well said Paddy, and a very timely warning for Gary. Do it for the passion but unless you have some heavy weight finance behind you for marketing purposes and a solid release schedule I wouldn't risk anything that you can't afford to lose. That said however, you are in THE best place in the world to ask for help making it Gary. Best of luck to you.

9 years, 11 months ago - janus avivson

Hi Gary, I am happy to join this very interesting discussion. Forget about Scotland. I am 68 and an independent filmmaker, I am just re-editing a 15 min short documentary about the art of a London born and based artist Magnus Irvin. I have a few final expenses about £3000, and this project is a lot of fun and arty. If you want to know about it let me know on avivson@gmail.com and we can meet to talk about it.

9 years, 11 months ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin

Dear Gary,

Firstly, how fabulous that you have found an interest in film and production - a huge and very culturally and artistically rewarding subject.

I'm a little concerned when you say 'risk some pension money', as if there was a chance you'd lose it, but also a chance you'd make money. Reality is a lot harsher than that - if you don't have money to invest/dedicate then don't do it. Most productions fail to find a paying audience, so I suggest you approach this considering the money to be for the joy of the experience, extra learning, and discovering a subject that matters to you.

Your life, interests and experiences may give you a unique take on a subject, or grant you access to people or places that nobody else has - that's how to capitalise on your position, at least artistically!

9 years, 11 months ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin

@Gary Braun Hi Gary, pretty sure John's referring to your financial, not physical security :)

9 years, 11 months ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin

Hi Gary, I think Marlom is trying to give you an idea about how you could post an advert that would get more attention, and not trying to send you anywhere. It all starts with having an idea you want to make your documentary about...

9 years, 11 months ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin

Hi Gary,

I guess people are just trying to work out how to best engage with you and how you might fit together. Clearly the world of film and TV is huge, but platforms like YouTube mean there's a potential audience at far lower financial investment levels, audiences that never existed even 20 years ago.

If your money is limited, the best bet is collaboration and helping with a few expenses, but you will need to be personally interested in the project for collaboration to work. This is why I keep coming back to the question if what interests you, what do you want to make a documentary about?

9 years, 11 months ago - Gary Braun

Thank you,Paddy,for your very concrete ideas how to look for a subject for documentaries.
We did today at City Lit a 30 seconds film .
It was filmed and edited.It took us about three hours.
It was more a product oriented film.We filmed the water cooler With the name of the company.
I wondered then,why should one make a documentary or featured film,if one can film a product and try to sell it to the company.In other words publicity films.
With a potential customer...
I think it financially sounder based than to participate at festivals.
Anyone interested in that kind of project?

9 years, 11 months ago - stephen southouse

Well... I have a feature length drama film project for which I'm looking for £5000 to make it. if you would like to be part of this please get back to me to discuss further: stephen@zelicafilms.co.uk
Thanks, Stephen

9 years, 11 months ago - Marlom Tander

@gary - making money in any way whatsoever in film is damned hard because there are lots of wannabe's and very few opportunities.

Now that we are clearer on your resources (and you're not really geared up to participate financially in a film) I'd suggest you simply start documenting your local community and uploading on YouTube. DO STUFF rather than try making money doing stuff.

Once people know about you, they'll start to ask you to attend things.

I did a lot of this a few years back. It was to kick start a community media website project and since there weren't any local video peeps, I picked up a camera and started filming. No experience, no training :-) My focus was local gigs and theatre but I did interviews with MP's, filmed educational snippets for local attractions etc. One camera, a tripod and mic, single take, no rehearsal and no control, and generally being the least important person in the room. No pressure, but the good news is that people tend just to love the fact that there's a record of the event rather than the quality of the record. So long as it's better than cameraphone you're winning.

The good news is that while this sort of thing is time consuming it's also basically zero marginal cost, so great for pensioners and students. And you'll feel valued as well once word gets out.

Note - you do not need to find an organisation to take you on. You just announce that you're doing it. It's amazing how far you can get just turning up somewhere with decent looking kit, saying that you are filming for your local community YT channel and can you film?

Pretty soon you ARE the community video guy. (Your actual local media - papers, radio - are generally crap at this because they are too much about NEWS and too much about THE PRESENTER).

For music however be very vary of unannounced covers - as that can sink your entire channel. TIP - google a line of lyrics and if it's a cover it'll show up. For classical / jazz works, check out date of death of ALL credited writers. The George and Ira Gershwin credit is a killer here. Ira lived for ages.

Cheers

9 years, 11 months ago - John Lubran

Consider Paddy's observations carefully Gary, they're very well founded. I too was a bit concerned that you're willing to "risk" some pension. Of course there's risk and there's risk and some pensioners are actually rich, indeed very rich, but I'd be alarmed if you're prepared to risk anything that would be detrimental to your security. So the devil being in the detail it's virtually impossible to offer a definitive analysis. One thing that's 99% certain though is that your investment is not so much a 'risk' as a certainty of net loss. However if it's all about having a nice time and pursuing a film project for its own sake, then why not? If the energy is present and ideas are good it can be a stepping stone; one thing often leads to another. Beware of those offering glossy outcomes though. Pensioners are statistically the most vulnerable to scams and cons. Make sure those who may seek your pension money are prepared to risk at least as much as you are and can prove their provenance!

9 years, 11 months ago - Gary Braun

Thanks,Jane,for your message about cooperating.
Will write to your email

9 years, 11 months ago - Gary Braun

Am very much afraid,friends,I have missinformed you about my financial intention.Somebody wrote about rich pensioneers..Wish it was true..harsh reality is different.I never had in mind investing thousands of pounds.Never wrote that.Am learning at City Lit,because people,teachers are nice.Courses are affordable.Apologies for this mistake.

9 years, 11 months ago - Marlom Tander

Probably because your request was not very specific.

Generally documentary makers start by doing something that THEY are interested in.

That way a lot of the contextual information is already known to them and they can avoid at least some blind avenues in terms of story and focus on the craft.

So, if you posted "planning to shoot a docu on Scottish Land Reform and it's impact on crofting and rural communities. Need presenter/interviewer, soundie. I will be doing the production side, camera and editing. Self funded with money set aside to cover all out of pocket costs - travel, hotels etc. Will be shot in North Scotland in August, will include some bog trotting so will not suit those allergic to mud.

Pay - can't afford to pay but will contract to equal shares of revenue in the highly unlikely event of it making more than it's costs." you'd be more likely to get a response. Or even post multiple ads "Soundie wanted" "Presenter wanted" etc.

When you are ready for your SECOND film, and people can see your first on YT and maybe it got prizes, that's when you post "Award Winning Director/Producer of "Crofting Reborn" interested in shooting political docus seeks ideas. If UK based can possibly self fund a few k for expenses, if outside UK, make sure you have a plan to get some funding - and "work up proposal and present Oxfam for awareness raising" does count, if you know people at Oxfam".

Good luck.

9 years, 11 months ago - Gary Braun

Marlom,All I did till now ,was to enroll in City Lit
At a very reasonable price of a few hundred quids.
Now you are talking about Scotland in Summer..
Thank you for that,however not very realistic for a senior citizen project budget..
I have no heavy budget.
Thanks anyway.

9 years, 11 months ago - John Lubran

Hi Gary, just to clarify, I was indeed refering to financial rather than physical security. Seems, especially after the misunderstanding with Marloes post, that there's a bit of a need to synchronise linguistic metaphors related to the common usage amongst this community of 'artists '. It's not an ageist thing though. I'm a pensioner too!

9 years, 11 months ago - Gary Braun

You see,John,before going to take that course on Film Making at City my whole life I was independent.
Never had a boss,no day of my life.
When entering the world of film making and art,I saw immediately that making a living from that, is going to be impossible.I was warned by you my friends.
And I believe You all.
However there must be a way to make an honest living from film making.
A painter can make a nice work and sell it on Etsy.
You make a feature/documentary where do you recover your expenses..?
You have to try some other direction...
Maybe selling products filmed on video is a way for me..
Am not looking for ego trips,doing MY featured/documentary looking something I can make some small profits.
Looking for a direction..

9 years, 11 months ago - Gary Braun

Hello Paddy,
So many documentaries have been done,one better than the other,so whom Am I ,at my age(65)to have a great idea.
Have you any practical idea?I know you are
A specialist and have seen your website.
My compliments for living in Bath,which is a beautifull town.
Have the clear impression that Film Making is a lot about investing money without having the slightest chance to recover one's money.
I intend therefore to try to learn also film editing since there is a slight chance of making a living.
What do you think?
Received from you,Folks,so many warnings about risking loosing my money..

9 years, 11 months ago - Gary Braun

Am not aware how many people are reading SP,however nobody made me some kind of proposition of cooperation with him/her to make some short documentary.How do I start finding an interesting and original script?After that how to proceed?Thanks.

9 years, 11 months ago - Gary Braun

Thank you,all,for your goodwill.

9 years, 11 months ago - Jane Sanger

Hi, it's great that you want to be more involved in film making and the other shooters have quite rightly warned you that you are unlikely to make money. I have a big slate of short, feature and doc films I want to make . I always need investors and depending on how much you wish to invest you can take on various crew roles or train with a more experienced person on site so to speak.
I understand your desire just to do something that interests you and fulfills you as I am the same .
Look at my website and I also have on slate two docs one about people who forage and eat only wild food in uk,living wild and free.....growing, hunting, foraging only enough food for their own or families use. The other about pressure for teen girls that is leading to more suicides and depression. Besides this many of my short films have a social or moral message such as violence, mental health issues, homelessness etc. In box me if any of these ideas interest you.

9 years, 11 months ago - John Lubran

Gary, the possibility of you being able to make such a publicity/marketing/corporate film on spec and then selling it directly to the business/entity concerned must be unlikely. Having said that, if you came up with an astonishingly clever, compelling and original idea you might be on to something. If you do have such a property you might get sponsorship for a viral campaign on YouTube for example. For some wholly unqualified reason supported only by the somewhat cynical hindsight of 35 years in this business, I don't have much confidence that you'll be doing this any time soon. I'll be tickled pink if I'm wrong. In any event, first hone your skills, forge some collaborative networks, enjoy the process and stay positive whilst your perceptions are finessed to that eureka point of enlightenment.

Occasionally, profound naivety wonderfully breaks through the barriers of dogmatic presumption. Go Gary go!

9 years, 11 months ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin

Hi Gary,

It's a tough one for sure. Yes, I make a living from film and events, but I'm far from rich, and it has taken best part of a decade, a lot of savings, and a good dose of luck!

Ideas for documentaries - again I come back to 'what interests you?'. The secret is to find a small topic you don't know well, and do research. An enquiring mind will find all kinds of niches - the recruitment process for a new hotel in town, a local traditional sign writer, a mood piece about a blacksmiths, settlement of ex-forces guts back into civilian world, the struggle of a local independent butchers in the face of a new supermarket, following a community theatre group putting together a new show, etc.

If you've no interests yourself, how about asking neighbours - maybe there's some good stories there? Just by chatting with strangers I've heard stories of the decades later meeting of the two widows of two British forces who were separately responsible for delivering the gold to, and receiving the gold from India to Pakistan during partition, even though the two men never met. Or maybe there's a guy with a passion for train sets, very visual, what's his story, how did he get started, what's the story behind the fascination? There's a lot of stories out there, so find one that appeals!

Also, what Marlon says, just start by doing small local stuff for free. Nobody is expecting the world's greatest, but it gives you a chance to develop your skills and have fun :)

9 years, 10 months ago - Mary Anstey

Hi Gary, I too am 'OLD'. I spent my funeral money on a screenwriting course in London....and I have a documentary, researched and almost ready.
It started as a feature screenplay and was pitched to the executives at Ffilm Cymru. They were impressed but it would have blown their budget so they suggested I made a documentary which they might consider funding. I have approached other funding bodies but they want a show reel with the application. I have a smart phone but am not the skills to make one. I am prepared to put a couple of hundred into this project. At the moment I'm looking for an intern to help on an expenses paid basis.
The only drawback I can see at present is that I am based in South Wales and I guess you are London based.
This may not be any help to you apart from giving you some ideas on a way forward. It is hard working in an industry full of the young. While they can be inspiring they have little realisation that we don't how much longer we've got!!! But stick with it Gary it's a great
way to spend your old age.

9 years, 10 months ago - Gary Braun

Thanks,Mary for your kind writing.
First you don't live very far from London,South Wales.It is less than two hours by train.
Was there,one week ago.
So no problem with that.
I entered City Lit a few months ago amd have taken there 6 different courses:drawing,advanced painting,bead jewellery,Fundamentals of Film making
And Ableton life music software.
Best teachers in the world,fellow students great people.
I find these last couple months are the most creative months of my life.
Would gladly cooperate financially with you doing some documentary film.My maximum budget is 3k£.
Please send me more details to my mail.
Braun.gary@gmail.com

9 years, 10 months ago - Anthony Sabanskis

Sounds like you've made your mind up on what you want to do Gary, which is good. I'm based in the North West an am currently working on pre-production of a documentary. You could tag along with me if you wanted to gain some further experience. This wouldn't cost you anything, other than transport?
Thanks, Tony.