ASK & DISCUSS INDEX

11 years, 6 months ago - Claudette FLINT

Thanks a lot Peter about the Guardian article.
However the problem with images (film) is that it can be misinterpreted. The Muslim culture could see it as an illustration of what would happen if the women get the same right and power as the men, therefore proving their point: women are dangerous and got to be kept under tight control.

11 years, 5 months ago - Shoaib Vali

complex issues can be challenging for people who are prone to having knee-jerk reactions, your job is to stereotype the 1.7bn Muslims living on the planet and my job is to raise awareness that there is a whole another side to the them, we are opposite sides of the coin in this context, lets leave it at that and wrap this shit up, over and out!

11 years, 6 months ago - Hardy Saleh

I would have to argue that the point is nest made by going to the extreme like this.

If it had depicted the utopia that you describe it would have been less thought-provoking and as a result it would have been less likely that you would have seen it or be discussing it.

11 years, 5 months ago - Claudette FLINT

IJ wonder why I bother to argue. It is so blatant that from all sources the situation of women in the Muslim/Islamic world is not brilliant (people on demo against the laws or the abscence of laws in India and Pakistan, the fantastic freedom of women in Afghanistan where they are not allowed to study.) All that, of course is Western brainwashing. So many Muslim/Islalmist women are doing so well at sports, ballet dancing, opera/pop singing, painting, playing the violin, acting, painting, sculpture, biologist,etc...
Iran film makers contribute to the freedom of women but their films are not that welcome in Iran.

11 years, 6 months ago - Dan Selakovich

There's no question that I live in a bubble!

I'm reminded of a time when I was working on a film in NZ about 20 years ago. I got a lot of attention from women, which was confusing because I'm the 2nd ugliest man in the world. One of the women in the office explained it to me: "we like American men born after 1960, because they were raised during the women's lib movement in the U.S., and treat women better than NZ men." The first time a stereotype worked in my favor!

Though, I unfortunately have to admit that the "rape" section of the film holds true here, but I wouldn't say the wife's reaction to it is common at all.

11 years, 6 months ago - Dan Selakovich

Wow! Seriously? You know, most of the time I hate my country, but I'm finding myself a little more forgiving since I've never knowingly met anyone that held that belief. Though you do see it in TV cops shows all of the time: she was asking for it because she was drunk or wearing a short skirt.

11 years, 6 months ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin

There are such cultural differences that it'll take time to dissolve. Look back at Britain 150 years ago - when women were given the vote following the sufferage movement. That's really modern, recent history when you look at the whole of human history or even British history.

This week I caught a taxi with an Afghani driver, he has 21 people in his family relying on his sending money home (from UAE) working 15h shifts in a taxi - and he is prioritising who gets to go to school and who doesn't. His daughters will get only a basic education. I tried to argue (in the bit of broken English we shared in common) that they should be treated the same as the boys, get the same education, but it seemed an alien concept, incomprehensible. On the other hand, we have girls like Malala who are effectively the modern Pankhursts for those societies. And they have a major platform internationally, which will help to amplify things I trust.

11 years, 6 months ago - Dan Selakovich

She made the point with out exaggerating? Is this how women are treated in France and the U.K.? That's unbelievably sad. I think if made in the 60s or 70s in the U.S., then sure. And does the U.S. have much further to go? Absolutely. But the unbelievable amount of disrespect toward "men" in this film doesn't hold true for me at all. Though I'm sure there are men here that behave this way toward women, I've just never seen it first hand. Or perhaps Los Angeles is a bubble where this amount of disrespect toward women is reserved for rap songs or the military.

As a film... it's just role reversal showing the worst side of women (men). It reminded me of a very short lived series here years ago called "Eve's Rib" (I think). It too survived on stereotypes, but not for long.

11 years, 6 months ago - Peter Ward

"But the emotional core of the film. The essence of the film, what makes it really compelling viewing, is its class bigotry, racism and – ironically – palpable misogyny. These are the real contents of the "black tide" of which Pourriat speaks...." http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/13/feminism-france-islam-majorite-opprimee-racism

11 years, 6 months ago - Claudette FLINT

Dan, I can't talk for the whole of France but in the south they are still very 'macho'. (one of the reasons why I left) Today French men say that in the US, it has become unbearable because you can't pinch a woman's bottom without going to court!!! (No, I won't mention our President's behaviour.)

Whether we agree with an opinion or not, I think the cinema does reflect a nation's feelings.
The bad behaviour against men in this film is meant to show men what it is like to be a woman in some parts of the world and even next door. Los Angeles must be a bubble. Or maybe you are in a bubble.

Richard, it might not mean that women could be just as bad, it could mean "You, a man, how would you react if the situation was like that? Because it is our situation in many cases, in our society. She shows simple routine situations. You don't recognize them in YOUR own society but they do exist even if a lot less since the 60's.
When a woman is raped, there are still people TODAY who think it serves her right, she should not have dressed like that.
I believe that only the cinema can make things move; images can do a lot more than any speech and the camera is more convincing than the pen.

11 years, 6 months ago - Claudette FLINT

Hardy, you are as right as Descartes!

11 years, 6 months ago - Marlom Tander

I had a young guy just the other week say that if a girl was drunk she was partly responsible if she was raped. I asked him if that meant that him being drunk meant he was partly responsible if he got mugged.

I'm pleased to say he got the point.

11 years, 6 months ago - Walter Miclo

Thought-provoking film! I like the way you come back to the real world at the end with the way you track the woman walking into the night and using the off-camera dialog.

11 years, 5 months ago - Ned Hussain

"In reality, and in Islam, the rights and responsibilities of a woman are equal to those of man, but they are not necessarily identical with them. Equality and sameness are two very different things.

People (extremist) make up the rules as they go. They are drunk on power and use any excuse to get what they want. Education for women in Afghanistan is actually growing. And Benazir Bhutto was not assasintaed because she was female but because she was a powerful individual that would have made a difference and some people didnt like that. Politics. Thats all.

11 years, 6 months ago - Richard Howard

I think the point is made very clearly and it's a point that needs to be made. What saddens me is the fact that this is simple role-reversal where women portray themselves as no better than some men currently are. Isn't the point better made by showing how women might create a more equal, compassionate and fairer society? I'm appalled by the iniquities perpetrated against women. Only recently I signed a petition against FGM. But not all men are bastards and not all women are saints. It's a vexed question and I totally understand why many women are so pissed off.