ASK & DISCUSS INDEX

9 years, 8 months ago - Howard Davidson

Paddy great points!! I'd like to try all those things to see if they'd be fun or not! :)

9 years, 8 months ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin

Working with clowns? ;-)

9 years, 8 months ago - JP Caldeano

I am a cinematographer and I always have fun doing what I love... and to be honest when its not paid its NOT FUN AT ALL...
The same applies when they say its gonna be a great showreel material and they are shooting on a canon550D and you own a better camera. And even on this website everyone asks ridiculous things like "We are looking for a person with OWN camera (worth of 50K) and lighting gear (a few thousand pounds) and ideally that can drive his own car and be a runner at the same time, all for free because we dont have budget"... but we promise IT WILL BE FUN...
If everyone charged a minimum rate, then it would be GREAT FUN.
Good luck guys and all the best on your projects.

JP

9 years, 8 months ago - Nick Hilton

Fun is a very subjective thing. If you're a professional 2nd AC, it might be fun to get to be DoP for a shoot. If you make a living as a background extra, it might be fun to have the starring role. There are lots of ways that it might be fun to get to fulfil ambitions that are usually frustrated.

But if you don't find it fun that's equally fine – it's a currency that not everyone is interested in and, equally, one that often goes undelivered.

9 years, 8 months ago - Dan Selakovich

It means it will be really fun for the writer/actor/director/producer. Everybody else is just doing their day jobs.

9 years, 8 months ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin

In seriousness, for a lot of people, it isn't the day job. Compared with working in an office, it's terribly glamorous and fun as it's an absolute break from the norm into an impossible dreamt-of future. Only by knowing the reality of the drudgery of life on set will you believe otherwise - we are in the illusions business after all, and Hollywood spends big money keeping the dream a dream!

So I cut people slack when offering fun - for some of them, especially the frustrated creatives, it will be a great day. For the trades it'll be just another day, but the inexperienced maybe don't realise the difference! For instance, would a day in the pits of a Formula1 race be fun for you? Flying a helicopter? Sailing the Med? Those are all day jobs for someone who is bored of it and thinks how glamorous it must be on a film set ;-)

9 years, 8 months ago - Marlom Tander

If it isn't fun you shouldn't be doing it. But if wanted people to work for free, I'm not sure that I'd include that F word in my pitch.

You want GOOD, SERIOUS people to work for free, you offer them something they need. Which is probably showreel material for cast and a chance to work with bigger/better/costly kit/locations/people etc for probably relatively inexperienced crew.

That, and make it clear that you know everyone is human and you'll be looking after them.

9 years, 8 months ago - Jim Page

I've just finished work on a short film for which i was payed nothing. David Fincher (yes him) saw it, loves it, and now I have several irons in the fire, not to mention the great working relationship i have with the Director.

There is as much equity in experience as money.

9 years, 8 months ago - Howard Davidson

That's what I was thinking! If the producer and all above the line people wore clown clothes and juggled and made balloon animals I'd be there in a minute!

9 years, 8 months ago - Tony Franks

It's your passion project?? IT'S FUN, FUN, FUN!!!!

It's not your passion project?? Less so... But still potentially valuable.

9 years, 8 months ago - Tom James

Anyone who thinks being a producer is fun^, in the limited terms of you bunch of complainers, has never been one. Nor for that matter is watching actors destroy your carefully written dialogue, or watching your gaffers fuck about for three hours when you've only got 20 minutes for the shot. And you forget that for many writers/actors/directors/producers...it's their day job too.

Film sets can be gruelling. And they certainly aren't glamorous. That being said, well scheduled days in interesting locations with well-tempered, humorous cast and crews, food and interesting people can be fun places to work. A lot of people pursue a career in film because they're genuinely interested in the craft. That means a team of people who share a common interest, working in pursuit of a common goal - creating something they can put their name on...

...that someone else has gone to the trouble of paying for by the way.

So to the moaners amongst you - assuming you're not being left out of pocket. Spare a little thought for the people who've chosen to work with you - because a lot of the time they're haemorrhaging thousands of pounds, providing equipment and locations and actors and dialogue and wardrobe and props for you to practise your craft at the very least for free, or for a little money that you'd otherwise get serving coffee or pushing paper around. Labouring under the blind delusion that this endeavour might just help them break out.

If you do love your job, there’s reason why. And If you don't like your job in film. If you're only in it for a pay check. If you're a jobsworth. Go do something else. Step aside for people who do want to do it because there are plenty of them.

A job is always a job sure. That's why they call it work. There will always be tough days. But I know three helicopter pilots and they all do it because they love to fly. The line of demarkation is simply too high for anyone to achieve their license without a passion for it. I don't know anyone in Formula 1 who doesn't do it because they LOVE formula 1. It’s gratifying. They enjoy the work. Ergo it is fun.

Go dig a ditch for a living - then come back and tell us which one is the more gratifying.

9 years, 8 months ago - Daniel Cormack

I think, like a lot of people on SP, I approach this question from both the perspective of someone who has worked for free and who has asked others to work for free.

If I were looking to get involved, I suppose I would see it as a signal that best efforts would be made to give recognition to the time I was giving, that where possible there would be time for me to learn something new or pick their brains and contacts at a later date, and that the people making the film wouldn't take themselves too seriously or think that they were relying on anything other than good will.

It sounds obvious, but I've been in situations giving up my time for free where people think that they have been doing me a massive favour. One person even told me I was "eligible" to work for free for them again. The initial "fun" was worthwhile, but frankly I learned everything I could from them pretty quickly and a lot of that was how not to treat people!

9 years, 8 months ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin

Daniel, you made me chuckle - I recently had someone offer me the chance to apply to work for free line producing a first-timer's feature on a zero-budget. Not asking if I could help out, but offering a chance to apply. But I declined graciously - that person thought they were doing me a favour, so courtesy lets them down gently.

I put it down to inexperience and (frankly) the glut of 'You, too, can make a movie for 50p!' books and courses promoting a dream. It really is fun for some people because it's not what they do every day. And it can be fun for me on occasion when I get to go into some cool locations (standing on stage at Wembley Stadium was certainly a bit of a frisson first time!). I remember those times, and that's how screenwriters feel the first time they see a unit filming actors saying their words!

9 years, 8 months ago - Howard Davidson

Thanks for that James, but the discussion isn't about the value of working for free or cheap, it's simply about what is meant by the phrase 'it will be fun'.

9 years, 8 months ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin

Job swap! Must be something in that ;-)

9 years, 8 months ago - Simon DaVison

On our film we rarely started before 10 and usually ended before 5 and we always had a nice lunch round a table. So we had about 6 hours of filming and we got a lot done because everyone was having fun. Really! Don't do 10 hour days unless you're being paid heaps.

9 years, 8 months ago - John Lubran

If FUN means enjoyment then fun in that context has a variable value that differs from individual to individual. I'll always take, with a big pinch of salt, any advert that seeks to entice people to work for nothing, by asserting it'll be fun, As with other discussions about the virtues or otherwise of not paying people in cash currency, there can never be an absolute definition that answers Howard's original question. Every circumstance has its unique characteristics. What is always cringe-worthy though is when the presumption of callowness is manifest.