ASK & DISCUSS
INDEXYou want the world but give us nothing
10 years, 10 months ago - Juliet Plumptre
I know this is something that has been going on since the world was made… so appoligise to you all….But there are many adverts on here that ask you that you should be experanced and provide equipment and also want links…. BUT as usual they cant pay you. One advert said that they didnt want to hire the equipment therefore they want you to provide your equipment for free. THIS REALLY HAS TO STOP….or no matter what if you provide your own equipment this MUST be included in your expenses and anyone that is saying that can't pay for the use of your equipment shouldnt be making a film or should STOP start saving up til they can. From a frustrated annoyed Sound Recordist with equipment.
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10 years, 10 months ago - Darren Westwood
As a low budget film maker, every single one of my films has been made at my own expense so I haven't always been able to pay my casts and crew for the work that they're doing or the equipment that they're providing, but I've never been asked to as I've always been up front about these things. I understand the annoyance at being asked to work for free and to bring your own equipment, but it's not like you have to accept these roles and if you do, you won't be given nothing for your efforts. My films have done quite well at festivals and competitions and some of the people I have worked with have gone on to get paid work through them, so getting your name on the credits of a film can be helpful, as well as the fact that you get another film to add to your filmography. If you have experience and equipment and you don't want to work for no money, then apply for paid work rather than unpaid work.
The fact is that this is how the film industry works at this level. Almost everyone works for free, but they gain experience and exposure in return. Don't like it? Cool. Don't accept any roles or respond to any of the unpaid adverts, there's a long line of people who need the experience and exposure that an unpaid job might bring. But complaining about it isn't going to suddenly mean that film makers can magic up some cash (unfortunately!)
10 years, 10 months ago - Elu Eboka
I can understand where Juliet is coming from and I think it boils down to this: If you don't have a budget that successfully allows you to pay for the help you need, then you shouldn't be too demanding when you want people to work for free. Rather make it an opportunity for those who don't have experience to add something to their resume. By paying someone you're really paying for their expertise within their field, so not paying someone with that expertise is somewhat insulting.
I think If you cant afford to pay people, then you should at least be open to people without experience working with you so that what you offer them is not money, but a chance to expand their resume.
10 years, 10 months ago - Dan Selakovich
The problem, Juliet, is that you will never stop the practice of "no pay". It's as old as film itself. People's dreams and desires of making a film much outweigh their pocketbook.
Why don't you do this: for every post looking for a production mixer, contact them with your rate. "I'll be happy to work on your film. Unfortunately equipment costs a boatload and I can't possibly do it for free. If you can find the money, my rate is _____."
Who knows. You might get a paying job out of it.
10 years, 9 months ago - Darren Brade
...that was as in, if you have a budget to pay some, better to pay all a lower wage than rather than just pay some of the crew.
10 years, 10 months ago - Juliet Plumptre
Pay people that provide equipment which includes camera, lighting, make up etc etc
10 years, 9 months ago - Flavio Filho
5 stars for all comments in this post.
I agree. The only short film I did, I've paid the minimum and expenses to everybody, even extras (also they were friends of mine, but it doesn't matter). And when I had to record the voice overs with the actors days later, I've paid them again. I think the minimum exists for a purpose. It's the minimum. Period.
Now about these ads asking for "experienced" people. What is exactly that? Yeah... Experienced on what? Nobody knows all. I've been with Directors that were completely lost on their grad films, and I ended up "co-directing", just for the sake of the film, and the people involved that were getting cold feet about the whole and this is what kills a film.
Also, I've got refusals to be DOP in roles that I came to see the results later, and gosh... It's when you realise are miles ahead from what people are asking you. Well, it's the best job in the world, they say. Competition is there and is never fair, but I digress.
I see that novice filmmakers are SO afraid nowadays. I've been there before, so I know what that is but jeez, people! Pay the minimum, get interested people on board, COLLABORATE. It's about everybody, not only who's Directing the film.
10 years, 10 months ago - John Lubran
It's astonishing just how naive or undeservedly self important some of these dubious offers can be, they can literally make one cringe with there yuckiness.
Paddy and Marlom have once more had to restate the blindingly obvious. It seems quite unnecessary for folks here to keep whinging on about other people asking for freebies. No one is being forced to accept these often risible requests. Lampooning those who 'offer' the more bare faced bum deals is much more effective.
10 years, 10 months ago - Juliet Plumptre
No one is whinging here….just saying that it amazes me that people want experanced people but dont want to pay them…..you cant have your cake and eat it so to speak. That old saying you wouldnt ask a dentist person to examine your teeth for free or a plumber to fix your tap for free…….. Completely agree that we dont have to take these jobs but perhaps these people should say " Or at least pay for the sounds person use of equipment….i think that would be a bit more fair. In some cases they dont want to pay for that either……someone out there says yes and again people have gotton away with it again. Anyway……….
10 years, 9 months ago - Darren Brade
I have come to the conclusion that there are no paid jobs on SP so pick my projects based on how interesting I think they will be for myself.
I think the Dan's idea is the best approach or have a minimum "kit cost" to include in your expenses to cover wear and tear. I'd hate to lost/break any equipment on an unpaid job.
10 years, 10 months ago - Juliet Plumptre
Why should someone with experiance and with equipment work for free?
10 years, 10 months ago - Marlom Tander
Why should they work for free? No "should" about it.
But I don't have an issue with people asking for free. So long as they really do have no money. (Don't get me started on proper companies and their interns).
If the project appeals - maybe it's local, maybe it's an interest of yours, you can say yes. Otherwise just ignore them.
People WITH money, they spend it. It's so much easier to actually make something happen if you can cut a few cheques :-)
And like I said, any film makers reading this, one of the FIRST people you should decide top pay, your sound person. Bad sound will trash a project.
10 years, 9 months ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin
We all do freebies and favours sometimes, so to paraphrase you somewhat 'If you want a freebie, you'd better make the project really interesting (and short)!'. I can't count the number of 'kids with guns' scripts I've seen - we don't even have firearms, certainly not small arms, in general usage in UK. It is a lazy device for tension - make something genuinely appealing it makes it easier for people to want to help!
If it helps anyone planning, favours last 2 days or less. Either shorten the script or find some cash! Even a token but realistic low pay shows people you're serious, and that makes a difference in itself. My 2p.
10 years, 10 months ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin
What about producers? Because our equipment is laptops and software should we charge for hire of those? How about mobile phones? Should plumbers be expected to provide a blowtorch and their own basic kit?
Unfair as it seems, having kit makes you an easier hire/engagement than someone without, especially at the starting out end of the market.
Luckily for you, as a Soundie, you can get a reasonable selection of kit inexpensively compared with Pictures who can spend £15k+ on a single lens - so it's easier for you to add value cheaply. For a grand or two you can often make yourself a fairly self-contained hire, and you know the kit you're working with and know it's good.
Maybe forget SP for making your fortune - there are a lot of enthusiastic but broke starters out here. Answer ads that pay what you want to earn, ignore those that don't. If a project is artistically interesting maybe do them a freebie. I know it's frustrating, but it's the same for everyone - production included - and if a soundie is on a project for a few shooting days, production are on it for weeks, first in, last out. We're even asked to find finance for someone else's dream and learning experience every single day in the bulletins! But without a space for starters to volunteer to support one another, SP would not be what it is, and wither and die. That would be a shame.
10 years, 10 months ago - Marlom Tander
Sound Recordist?
That's the one trade less appreciated by wannabes than writers.
TIP - guys, if you are thinking of shooting a short and you don't know how hard good sound is to do, you are about to mess up your entire project. So even if most people are working for free for showreel etc PAY Juliet because if you don't, the free peeps won't get what they want either.
10 years, 10 months ago - Juliet Plumptre
Agree :) Elu. :)
10 years, 9 months ago - Darren Brade
I also agree with the frustration at reading some of these ads demanding kit and "professional" people.
Also those projects that clearly can afford to pay some roles but not others. If you're paying some crew members you should be paying all.
I imagine that can be awkward on set when one crew member discovers their colleague is getting paid more than "expenses".
10 years, 9 months ago - Darren Brade
Very true Paddy, I would also add "pay all" and not just "some".
10 years, 9 months ago - Lee 'Wozy' Warren
Death, taxes and expenses only...