ASK & DISCUSS INDEX

10 years, 10 months ago - Bill Smith

Sadly most posts on this site reflect the Hollywood maxim " there's the dogshit on my shoes, then there's slash and then there's writers!" Slash is writer/directors. Writing is not respected, and that needs to change!! I am a writer!! X

10 years, 9 months ago - Industrial Scripts

One point worth mentioning here is that, for our part, we know far, far more skint producers than we know writers (we know quite a few writers who are earning significant sums). Ask most people in the industry and they'd probably say the same - being an independent film producer, in the UK, in 2014/15, is incredibly tough. Incredibly tough. It's getting to the point that without private wealth it's genuinely in doubt whether the career of an indie film producer is even viable anymore. So whilst it's disappointing that there aren't more paid writing gigs advertised on SP, believe it or not writers definitely don't have the worst of it...

10 years, 8 months ago - Stuart Wright

I wasn't whining or claiming I deserve/expect to get paid. I was simply commenting that I'd seen no paid work and wondered if I was alone in that observation of shooting people. C'est la vie.

10 years, 10 months ago - Stuart Wright

LOL ... I believe BUILDING PEOPLE network has lots of these type of ads ;)

10 years, 10 months ago - Stuart Wright

I'm aware of the varying skillsets of people across the writing spectrum. My observation was more that I couldn't find any and haven't seen any before. Whereas I've seen plenty of paid grips, camera assistants etc advertised for with the promise of more than expenses.

True we choose to apply and I don't.

Just disappointed that the term 'jobs' is redundant when it comes to writers on shooters is all.

Hence my closing point - disappointing really.

10 years, 10 months ago - Stuart Wright

Exactly my point ... also your observation as to the absence of paid writing work on here rings true too.

10 years, 8 months ago - Stuart Wright

That's at least encouraging ... cheers

10 years, 9 months ago - Darren Brade

I don't think it's just writers that get a raw deal on here. The one job I looked at today, bragged about winning previous awards in their advert for a "professional" stills photographer, yet looking at other adverts placed here, some were paid.
They reached their funding target in their kickstarter campaign, obviously they didn't budget for paying ALL of the crew.

10 years, 8 months ago - Cameron Phillips

I've recently had a short produced and didn't make a penny from it. I don't pour scorn on the producer and director for doing so, I took it as par for the course. The final film is something I can now show others as a way of saying I'm not just larking around with a laptop here.

I've started work on a feature which has involved a ton more work so I'd probably be looking for a return on that but any offer will probably be in consideration of my level of experience.

I can certainly understand frustrations some have with the 'think of what adding this to your CV could mean' crowd but if you don't like the terms then don't take the gig. If any producer advertising no payment just got time wasters then they would soon stop.

10 years, 8 months ago - Lee 'Wozy' Warren

And whilst I'm on this subject, I think Paddy summed it up - a lot of writers on here think they are writers because they have a copy of Word. OMG! You need to work at your craft, write a lot of spec scripts or short scripts, get lots of coverage, work with a script editor/doctor/consultant and get f..ing good. Then submit to producers and production companies or agents or managers. Not whine about why Shooters doesn't pay more than nothing or expenses. And what the hell expenses does a writer have? Most producers here, most not all, are in the same boat as you. Producing films for virtually nothing till they get damn good at it and a bigger producer notices them.

Bottom line - develop your talent, learn your craft, get it into the hands of people who can make a difference.

Phewww!

10 years, 10 months ago - Michael Brandon

Low or no fund collaboration is appropriate – but you need to be sure you’re not being taken for a ride. I sometimes wonder if everyone involved in a low budget project does it for nothing or for expenses only.

Some forums and job sites allow shysters to advertise ‘opportunities’ for writers that are crass and exploitative in the extreme. They follow the same twisted logic and share the same insulting lexicon: who needs payment when we’re giving you something for your CV? What price can you put on experience? Work for free and get your work seen. I doubt the legality of much of it.

But compared to many other forums Shooting People comes off fairly well. The occasional howler slips through the net – I recall one person who wanted someone to write nine half hour episodes of a documentary. No payment, but you might get a chance to work for them again. Fantastic! It was quickly taken down.

I suppose it’s up to us to separate the wheat from the chaff. Or the fellow creative traveller from the exploitative arsehole.

10 years, 10 months ago - Marlom Tander

The lovely thing about being a writer is that for us, screenplays are just one form.

So guys, if* you can't get good writing for free, it's because our free work is for our spec scripts, our novels, our short stories and our poems :-)

*if? waddya mean "if" :-)

10 years, 8 months ago - Lee 'Wozy' Warren

Come on guys - who ever said that Shooters was the place to get a serious job? It's a place mainly for newbies, those who want to give back something, and to network. If you're relying on getting your bread and butter work from here, then you need to reassess. I'd guess that some people do get some good work, but they are in the minority.

10 years, 10 months ago - Michael Brandon

Not offering to pay has nothing to do with reticence, it’s about not wanting to pay. It’s very easy to assess the caliber of a writer.
On a related subject, I’m looking for a talented architect to draw up blueprints for a fabulous new house. If it gets built, I’ll pay them.

10 years, 10 months ago - Stuart Wright

Thanks for response ... I must admit I expect to see collaborative stuff for shorts especially ... but the amount of feature work that's posted that is requiring a writer's skills, but not wanting to pay anything for them unless the script is sold is amazing me. I understand things are tight, but don't you pay for what you get in terms of elevating a spec script for sale ... In the end you'd be better pursuing your own spec scripts than put effort into someone else's ... like I say disappointing really.

10 years, 10 months ago - Paddy Robinson-Griffin

Here comes the bind - people want to be paid to work of course. You, as a writer, want to be paid for writing. That's cool. However everyone with a copy of Word thinks they're a writer, so the wheat and chaff need sorting. Before paying a writer a fee, how do you know if their work is worth it? Have they sold anything before? Have they had any work produced?

This place has a lot of enthusiastic amateurs wanting to turn professional and hoping get paid. The ones who've had a couple of films made stand out because someone else has committed money to making them - it suggests more than one person likes the work and rightly or wrongly that sends a good message.

I'm playing devil's advocate a little - but SP has a lot of 'expenses' or very low pay ads. There are also plenty for producers, line producers, PM's - some of them even want the successful candidate to raise and bring money for the production. I feel it's up to the prospective candidate to choose whether or not to apply.

10 years, 7 months ago - Lee 'Wozy' Warren

We the typical route is to find a script that you want to produce and option the rights to it. Yes this will probably mean coming out of your own pocket, but that's what producers do.

We option scripts from the profits of other work now and so it doesn't come out of my pocket personally. But I ultimately take the hit for the option cost as not all projects in development get made. Even a nominal amount to the writer up front gets you the rights to promote the work and get finance for production, if that's what you want to do. And then the option protects the writer with a proper payment if the script gets financed and made. If not, then the work reverts back to the writer - simples!

10 years, 10 months ago - Dan Selakovich

Hey Stuart, I think it's also just a big lopsided world. Probably most that are looking for crew are directors that have written their own scripts, or found a script to direct. So you'll see those posts more often than someone looking for a writer.

Plus, I honestly don't know why any writer would want to write someone else's spec script. That's basically what we're talking about here, because if a producer had money for a project in the works, he'd pay SOMETHING, right? Hum. Probably not. I'd rather work on my own spec scripts than someone else's.

10 years, 7 months ago - Jon (Jack) Gritton

Is it not simply that writing tends to be right at the start of the project and that's often where there is no, or very little confirmed investment? If you're looking for a camera operator or a sound recordist you're presumably some distance down the road of actually producing something and are more likely to have some funding. I have a fair few potential investors for my new project, but all the ones I've spoken to so far want to see a script. So I'm in Catch-22. I can't get funding because I haven't got a script; I can't get a script because good writers want (and deserve) to be paid.

10 years, 8 months ago - Vasco de Sousa

There have been, in my time here, a few paid writer's jobs. One paid two thousand pounds for a spiritual black film project, and was promptly insulted in debate (I actually stood up for that one).

Another wanted torture erotica horror or something like that, and paid just over ten thousand pounds. (I didn't see any complaints, but I still considered the pay pretty low.)

Others have claimed to pay in the same kind of ballpark as those two, or occasionally a day rate. Although I didn't contact the two I mentioned, I have contacted others and have mostly had no response, neither positive nor negative, not even asking to see my script. Two people asked to see my screenplays, and I had no response to even say they received it. (maybe they died, I never heard about them afterwards.)

I had much better luck on other sites. My work usually comes in through word of mouth. But still, I think part of the problem is people don't understand development, writer-producer co-pitching deals, option agreements, and all the other ways they could show respect to writers.

A lot of writers here work hard and do have talent. And anyway, there are a million paid jobs in the media and publishing industries in the UK alone. A lot of those who are paid are hacks (watch late night tv if you don't believe me).

10 years, 8 months ago - Siobhán McKendrick

I'm currently doing an unpaid writing gig - not because I'm a charity worker or anything, I'm looking for the experience of writing for someone else (and it's not exactly costing me anything other than time to write it).

I started screenwriting over 20 years ago, I had a WGA signatory agent and my material was being shown to producers/execs/directors in Hollywood. Sadly it turned out my agent was a shyster (damn that would make a good sitcom!) and he never sold anything - despite all the positive feedback he got.

I had to give up my pursuit of a career as a screenwriter for personal reasons, but now I am able to take up the reins again, however the landscape has changed in the last 20 years and it's damn near impossible to get any gigs if you don't have any credits or contacts.
So I decided to take the chance on a guy who has credentials as a producer/director and write something for him, purely to get that credit on my CV.

Hey we've all got to start somewhere, and these days no one wants to read anything you've written if you're a nobody - no matter how good of a writer you are!

~S